[Morning Wood]

Just wondering if this headspace guage looks Ok to you guys. If so, I will use it to build my semi and to check my sideplate gun when switching ammo.

GO=.126; No-Go=.130 (i'm not sure what they should be, primary reason i'm asking.)

It's .375 wide and 2.503 long.

 

[Slimjim]

You dont need a gauge to headspace a 1919, its super easy.

 

[Morning Wood]

You dont need a gauge to headspace a 1919, its super easy.

You mean letting the bolt slam from 3/4 back while adjusting the barrel out til it closes.
Yeah OK, maybe. but I'm just used to using HS guages instead of sighting it in with my thumb. I just like lots of verification.

 

[brassmagnet]

We normally use .125 as a guide, and I repeat guide....so your gauge looks pretty good for a guide....

 

[Morning Wood]

I've been looking over the tutorial and checking it on my BMG. It doesn't seem to work exactly as the tuto points out. Checking it from the bottom, no matter where the bbl is adjusted, it always the same amount of friction. both fit somewhat loosly. I can go to the top and I can get the barrel adjusted where it will close on the GO side but not the nogo side. This would be the golden spot for a meer mortal rifle, but i'm not sure if I still need to turn it out 2 more clicks. If I do, even 1 click, the nogo side will close. When the gun was built, Doug peened the barrel when he set the HS. So I know where "home base" is, but unfortunately it is neither position. I just want to understand why.

 

[Abwehr]

Headspacing

Morning Wood,

My gauge does the same as yours, the same "friction feel" no matter where it is adjusted. Follow the Tutorial and it will work.

Screw the barrel in until the bolt will not lock up, start unscrewing 1 Click at a time until the barrel locks up. Then screw out 1-2 clicks. Once the bolt locks, the gun IS headspaced, but when firing, there is heat build up and expansion of the parts. This expansion may be enough to stop the bolt from locking; so you open up the headpsace 1-2 clicks.

When I do a headspace, I fire ONE (1) round, inspect the case, fire another, inspect the case, fir a third and inspect the case. If all three look good, it is ready to go. I usually set the barrel out 2 clicks after the bolt locks. I have a headspace gauge, but as "brassmagnet" stated, I use it as a CHECK only.

The military did headspacing this way for years, so I figure if it is good for the combat troops, it is good for me. By the way, when you are changing brand of ammo, do the inspection of the three rounds fired and inspection; no ammo manufacturer makes them the exact same each time. There has been a lot of stuff about headspacing, but listen to the guys that KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING like Lobo. Lobo will NOT lead you wrong.

 

[loboslanding]

"You mean letting the bolt slam from 3/4 back while adjusting the barrel out til it closes.
Yeah OK, maybe. but I'm just used to using HS guages instead of sighting it in with my thumb. I just like lots of verification."


No it doesn't look okay . There is not much "Yeah ok,maybe" concerning this subject. GI's in the field didn't have gages and the second method in the tutorial is taken from the Manual so it's not "maybe", it's must. The first method works too, but you can't apply go, no-go gages to an adjustable headspace weapon that's been converted from fa to semi and only folks that understand and have a great deal of experience and confidence using those gages on this weapon should be attempting it. Go to the first thread on this forum to new gun owners http://1919a4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=818 and see #3, but read them all. Toss the gage...you've already confirmed (and abwehr re-confirmed it) that the gage isn't working...go with that thought and, again, toss the gage. Brass emphasized "guide" and that's all they are...don't use it for final hs. Even if you did manage to get it close, as soon as you change ammo lots, mfgr or date then your hs is probably off...headspace is not a one time setting on these guns.

Also, no GI gages I ever saw for a 1919 are go, no-go and I never saw any GI manual illustrating their use...fa 50 Cal M2 yes, but not a 1919. Even on my semi M2 the gages have to be used very carefully or they give too much headspace...I no longer use them and headspace the 50 cal just like I do a 1919. Others may have different experience and knowledge.

There is no such thing as "home base" on a 1919...read the thread to new gun owners carefully because previous gun knowlege or heresay can seldom be applied to this weapon....not that I didn't do that myself .

I'm not trying to be mean, but most injuries are due to improper headspacing. If this is your first 1919 then do as most of us have had to do and toss all your previous experience aside and assume you know nothing about the weapon and start from scratch.

I know I'm getting a little intense about this subject matter, but way too many accidents are occurring and it would be helpful if all us old guys would refer any posters of questions like this back to the warning post I attached above...several knowledgable members contributed to it and all new gun owners need to study it.

Sorry for the nickels worth, but if I didn't care I wouldn't spend this much time making a post like this. Besides and always, if not satisfied I offer a double your misery or injuries back guarantee .

 

[ttpete]

In a technical sense, the actual headspace is not taken into account when the adjustment is made. What is being set is the clearance between the bolt and the rear end of the barrel when the action is locked up. Actual headspace is set when the chamber is cut in the barrel. This means that the reference point when using an actual chamber type headspace gage is the rear face of the barrel.

What we are really setting when we set "headspace" on these guns is how much of the brass case is hanging out of the chamber. And we trust the barrel maker to have cut the chamber correctly.

Actual headspace is not as big a deal as some think. I have seen where a clip of .308 ammo was fired through a 30-06 Garand by mistake. All that happened was that the necks of the cases were straightened out, and the accuracy was lousy. Of course, they were worthless for reloading.

 

[loboslanding]

Definition of headspace for a 1919 according to the Manual: "Headspace is the distance between the face of the bolt and the rear of the barrel".

On a 1919 the bolt holds the cartridge...it does not depend on seating against the chamber throat or walls. In addition to heat, the reason you have an adjustable hs on a 1919 is so you can compensate for any amount of chamber wear or mfgr tolerances. You can still headspace a shot out 1919 chamber...the gun doesn't care how much cartridge is sticking out the rear...on a conventional bolt action gun or Garand it does matter.

 

[Abwehr]

All new and some older 1919A4 guys need to heed the warning from "Lobo" and "brassmagnet"! This gun is fun, but it is not a bolt action rifle. You must understand the operation and function of the gun.

My friend coming in from Iraq should have his 1919A4 from AA waiting for him. I have told him to READ and UNDERSTAND the tutorials. Then he and I will get together and go over the operation and HEADSPACING PROCEDURE! There is a lot of good 7.62 NATO and a LOT of CRAP ammo out there. If yo want to shoot crap in a $1K - 2K gun, fine, but at least know how to operate the gun first. "Lobo" is my 1919 Guru, and I LISTEN to what the man says, as he knows a lot more about the gun than I do; I listen to EXPERIENCE!

DO the same and you will have a good time with gun, but if you don't you will wreck the gun or HURT yourself for stupid mistakes.

 

[Morning Wood]

"You mean letting the bolt slam from 3/4 back while adjusting the barrel out til it closes.
Yeah OK, maybe. but I'm just used to using HS guages instead of sighting it in with my thumb. I just like lots of verification."


No it doesn't look okay . There is no "Yeah ok,maybe" concerning this subject. GI's in the field didn't have gages and the second method in the tutorial is taken from the Manual so it's not "maybe", it's must. The first method works too, but you're trying to apply go, no-go gages to an adjustable headspace weapon that's been converted from fa to semi and only folks that understand and have a great deal of experience and confidence using those gages on this weapon should be attempting it. Go to the first thread on this forum to new gun owners http://1919a4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=818 and see #3, but read them all. Toss the gage...you've already confirmed (and abwehr re-confirmed it) that the gage isn't working...go with that thought and, again, toss the gage. Brass emphasized "guide" and that's all they are...don't use it for final hs. Even if you did manage to get it close, as soon as you change ammo lots, mfgr or date then your hs is probably off...headspace is not a one time setting on these guns.

Also, no GI gages I ever saw for a 1919 are go, no-go and I never saw any GI manual illustrating their use...fa 50 Cal M2 yes, but not a 1919. Even on my semi M2 the gages have to be used very carefully or they give too much headspace...I no longer use them and headspace the 50 cal just like I do a 1919. Others may have different experience and knowledge.

There is no such thing as "home base" on a 1919...read the thread to new gun owners carefully because it sounds like you're trying to apply previous gun knowlege or heresay to a weapon you're not familiar with....not that I didn't do that myself .

I'm not trying to be mean, but most injuries are due to improper headspacing. If this is your first 1919 then do as most of us have had to do and toss all your previous experience aside and assume you know nothing about the weapon and start from scratch.

I know I'm getting a little intense about this subject matter, but way too many accidents are occurring and it would be helpful if all us old guys would refer any posters of questions like this back to the warning post I attached above...several knowledgable members contributed to it and all new gun owners need to study it.

Sorry for the nickels worth, but if I didn't care I wouldn't spend this much time making a post like this. Besides and always, if not satisfied I offer a double your misery or injuries back .

Lobo, thank you for your post.

I have read your warning many times over in the last few days since I joined. I understand that you think my HS guage is a piece of crap and I should toss it. My reference to "home base" was ment to convey that no matter how irrelavant, I knew where I started. I also know that this is an adjustable headspace weapon and I am trying to grasp that fact and get it though my thick skull. I was simply having some issue wrapping my head around the fact that your 1st method wasn't working for me exactly as spelled out in the tutorial. It seems as though method #1 is the preferred method to the new member since it is first and so much more information is listed about it than is the second method. If HS guages are "only for folks that understand and have a great deal of experience and confidence using those gages", perhaps you should remove method #1 since it only serves to confuse new owners and those that "understand" wouldn't need a tutorial anyway.

As I now understand your advise, I should turn the barrel in just until the bolt will not lock-up from a 3/4" bolt release. Then turn it out 1 click to achieve lock-up. Then 1 additional click. If the gun runs sluggish, or bolt will not lock-up, add 1 click outwards until it works properly until maximum of 4 clicks out from lock-up is reached.

Maybe I have finally wrapped my head around this BMG headspace thing. Please feel free to correct me at any point that I am in error. I think I may also review my FM23-55.

 

[loboslanding]

You have a firm grasp on it. Our site is also for full auto guys so both hs methods are for all 1919 users. The warning thread on this forum is recently stickied at the top for all builders/buyers to see. Based on your suggestion I'll go into that post and clarify about the gage. Thx.

 

[iRIGHTi]

I've always used 2 ways to head space.

1. British method - Assemble barrel to barrel extension and screw all the way in. Hold with barrel in the air at 45 degree or higher angle. Install assembled bolt onto barrel extension as far as it will go. Press up on lock block. It will not go up into the bolt. Unscrew barrel one click at a time until lock block will go up into bolt. Then unscrew 2 more clicks. This is preliminary head space. (Not the safest method with the drive spring and holding the thing like a guitar while clicking the lock block, and not letting the bolt fall, but it was how the troops were taught.) They used gauges in the field to check for final headspace before firing.

2. American method: Pull back bolt. Intentionally screw in barrel too far and release bolt handle. Bolt will not go into full battery as you can see by the bolt handle. Pull back bolt handle 1" and unscrew barrel one click at a time and release bolt handle. Repeat until bolt goes into full battery, then unscrew 2 additional clicks. This is final headspace with no gauges.

Either one works for me and never had a problem in thousands of rounds through 3 1919's...all 30.06. 99% LC surplus.