[UncleDad]

What is the sight that is used to shoot at object you cant see, such as over a hill? I just picked one up that I think is for a French MAS, but I cant recall what these sights are called. Ill post pics shortly. I know they have them for the 1919 as well.

 

[Rory]

a lucky sight or a magic sight?

 

[wetwilly]

I've read about sights for the 1919a4 like that. They were for indirect fire, or shooting over a hill like you said. They looked complicated and probably got tossed quickly by the poor slob who had to carry them.

 

[kkkriverrats]

Indirect fire

Some where, maybe Frank Inaniaco's Hard Rain, I read that the during the 30's the Army got all sweaty about using a 1919 for indirect fire (you can't see the target) and worked up tables to be used like for an artillery piece.

Apparantly, someone with common sense put a stop to that idea.

I can't remember wether or not there was a special sight. The whole thing sounded kind of strange, and well beyond what the weapon was intended to do.

 

[762x51]

I haven't seen one for the M1919 but the British used one on the Vickers with good results.
When using this sight the Vickers had a range of 4,600 yards and indirect or plunging fire was used a lot during WWI and to a lesser extent during WWII.

Photo of the sight:

 

[wetwilly]

That is one very cool looking sight! I would guess there are not many like it still around?

 

[762x51]

Yes, they are kind of rare and don't show up for sale that often. The Germans also used a indirect fire sights MGZ and MGz40 on the MG34 and MG42 Lafette tripods. The range tables were affixed to the rear of the search fire assembly.

Here is the MGz40

 

[alamosaddles]

What is the sight that is used to shoot at object you cant see.

Isn't that a braille sight?

 

[Rory]

and really how does the sight actually work as in what are you looking at? or is it just numbers? like dialing in something. but then couldn't you just keep creeping up the angle on your aa style tripod? i mean if you are shooting over to the other side of a hill what are you looking at other than the sky or the hill.

alamo good one on the braille though that was nice.

r

 

[franks71vw]

thats amazing...

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

What is the sight that is used to shoot at object you cant see, such as over a hill?

volley sights?

the watercooled brownings used a clinometer (which was similar to the ones they used for artillery) and basic trigonometry to determine rough long range sighting. Aiming stakes are sometimes driven in the ground at a certain known distance for ranging purposes, and for calculating angles.

I have an original military 1917 browning chart that is on a wood board used for long range elevation settings

i was unaware that the 1919a4 used any such item other than the clinometer from a 1917 and possibly a trig chart.

the 1928 colt (commercial browning 1917 watercooled gun) used a sight made by zeiss that is similar to the vickers dial sight pictured above
http://www.browningmgs.com/Colt1928/03_Sights.htm
download the manual me and john worked out for everyone

 

[wetwilly]

It may have been an older browning or even the chart you mention. I did not pay a lot of attention at the time as it was not something I was going to do. Wish I could remember where I saw it. May have been a copy of an old training manual.

 

[brassmagnet]

thats amazing...

That first one looks HEAVY!!

 

[UncleDad]

Here are the pics. On the edge is stamped "MAS" and a small circle with a V in it.

 

[southbysouthwest]

Here are the pics. On the edge is stamped "MAS" and a small circle with a V in it. ..

This is not a sight in the strict sense of the word, but more of a level with inclination marks....ala "clinometer" as B.A.R. Gunner noted. Used to set up the gun's elevation angle when used with range tables.

 

[kkkriverrats]

Instructions for use

The first photo shows the "clinometer" stamped with the legend "Direction du but" that must be for the use of those you hit with friendly fire, shows them which end to stick up your ass.

Here are the pics. On the edge is stamped "MAS" and a small circle with a V in it.

 

[Dan @ Angola Armory]

The Clinometer pictured is most likely for the Hotchkiss Machine gun. The only other machine the French fielded at the time was the Bene-Mercie which was described as a "Machine Rifle" AKA Squad Automatic in todays terms.Remember, at the time, machine guns were new to the battlefield and under the command of the Artillary, so indirect fire was computed with complicated ranging tables, trig and devices such as these.
Machine Guns, George Banta Publishing Co. Menasha, WI 1917.
Dan

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

It may have been an older browning or even the chart you mention. I did not pay a lot of attention at the time as it was not something I was going to do. Wish I could remember where I saw it. May have been a copy of an old training manual.

let me find my ranging chart and ill post pics of it for everyone
i also have the clinometer, but john at browningmgs.com covers the clinometer fairly well here
http://www.browningmgs.com/Clinometer/Clinometer.htm

 

[KABAR2]

Gee....I figured someone would have posted a photo by now.....am I one of the few who has one of these.....

"CLINOMETER MACHINE GUN 1917" on reverse side-
"EXACT LEVEL, HIGH BRIDGE N.J. 1943"

This gave me an excuse to test out my new digital camera my wife gave me for Christmas!

 

[KABAR2]

OK I don't know where I had this photo from, it was on an old disc. of photos I saved from one of my old computers. Was this for the M1917 browning?