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Discussion Starter #1
I am starting to parkerize with manganese and I cant seems to get enough heat to my tank. I have a single pipe with holes spaced approx every 1/2 to 3/4 inch evenly. I was thinking of either adding a second burner pipe or drilling another set of holes in this one for a double row of flames. Does anybody have a double flame row pipe they use and can tell me the spacing in between the rows ? I can get the temp up to 160 degrees but really want to get up to 190 to 200 degrees. Also does anyone know how else I can get the heat up more ? I have looked at brownells burner pipes and they are expensive so I am going to buy a 3/4 pipe drill the holes myself and buy a air/fuel mixer and build a prewarmer rinse tank and a post rinse tank also. I need higher heat also cause one of these day I am going to blue also which as I understand takes alot more heat. Any help would be great

Thanks

Allan
 

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Do you have a top for your tank? Sounds like we have about the same heating tube. I have to cover mine to get to the 190 degrees.
 

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I am starting to parkerize with manganese and I cant seems to get enough heat to my tank. I have a single pipe with holes spaced approx every 1/2 to 3/4 inch evenly. I was thinking of either adding a second burner pipe or drilling another set of holes in this one for a double row of flames. Does anybody have a double flame row pipe they use and can tell me the spacing in between the rows ? I can get the temp up to 160 degrees but really want to get up to 190 to 200 degrees. Also does anyone know how else I can get the heat up more ? I have looked at brownells burner pipes and they are expensive so I am going to buy a 3/4 pipe drill the holes myself and buy a air/fuel mixer and build a prewarmer rinse tank and a post rinse tank also. I need higher heat also cause one of these day I am going to blue also which as I understand takes alot more heat. Any help would be great

Thanks

Allan
What are the dimensions of the tank and how much water/concentrate? Here is one option, 45,000 btu should get the heat you are looking for. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_23798_23798
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I do not have lids/tops for my tanks but I am getting some made. The tanks are approx 40" long and 8" wide and 8 to 10 " deep. But I did not fill it totally up with water/solution, only went up to 4-5 inches. Enough to cover a M2 barrel extension on its side plus about a inch. Also does anybody strain their solution after a while ? Seems like a lot of crud gets in it after a few uses. there is like crystals at the bottom, do I strain those out ? I used steel wool to activate it and then ran a magnet threw it to get all the loose steel hairs out of it. How about keeping parts off the bottom ? does anybody use like a stainless screen ? Its kind of a pain in the ass to have to suspend everything up off the bottom. When I first mixed up the batch the temp got up to 190, and had great results, now it seems I cant get up above 160 ? And its not parking correctly, discoloring the parts. I tried switching propane tanks also, in case a low one was not supplying enough gas. I have kept the solution at the same level -+ 1 inch. But I have not added any more chemical, just distilled water. I know I want it at 190 to 200 cause when I was helping a friend park we figured out the manganese takes a little more heat to get it to work correctly. I sand blast the parts right before the go into the tank and blow them off with air, used brake cleaner at first to clean them but that gets expensive after using a few cans. On another subject, does the blasting media in a sand blaster get worn out ? I am using glass beads, and I bought the sand blaster used with the media still in it, and just went with it, seems like its doing a good job but lots of cloudiness in the cabinet with a shop vac hooked up to it. its just a cheapo harbor freight one, I have to use it until I can afford to buy a bigger air compressor and get my big sand blaster operational. Slowly I got to get this parking and blueing up to snuff cause I have well over a hundred kits of all sorts to build. Dont care if it takes me 10 years to do cause this is more or less for my retirement and kids college cause lost everything else financially in a bad divorce. Anybody has any tips and tricks to pitch in would be greatly appreciated
 

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I do not have lids/tops for my tanks but I am getting some made. The tanks are approx 40" long and 8" wide and 8 to 10 " deep. But I did not fill it totally up with water/solution, only went up to 4-5 inches. Enough to cover a M2 barrel extension on its side plus about a inch. Also does anybody strain their solution after a while ? Seems like a lot of crud gets in it after a few uses. there is like crystals at the bottom, do I strain those out ? I used steel wool to activate it and then ran a magnet threw it to get all the loose steel hairs out of it. How about keeping parts off the bottom ? does anybody use like a stainless screen ? Its kind of a pain in the ass to have to suspend everything up off the bottom. When I first mixed up the batch the temp got up to 190, and had great results, now it seems I cant get up above 160 ? And its not parking correctly, discoloring the parts. I tried switching propane tanks also, in case a low one was not supplying enough gas. I have kept the solution at the same level -+ 1 inch. But I have not added any more chemical, just distilled water. I know I want it at 190 to 200 cause when I was helping a friend park we figured out the manganese takes a little more heat to get it to work correctly. I sand blast the parts right before the go into the tank and blow them off with air, used brake cleaner at first to clean them but that gets expensive after using a few cans. On another subject, does the blasting media in a sand blaster get worn out ? I am using glass beads, and I bought the sand blaster used with the media still in it, and just went with it, seems like its doing a good job but lots of cloudiness in the cabinet with a shop vac hooked up to it. its just a cheapo harbor freight one, I have to use it until I can afford to buy a bigger air compressor and get my big sand blaster operational. Slowly I got to get this parking and blueing up to snuff cause I have well over a hundred kits of all sorts to build. Dont care if it takes me 10 years to do cause this is more or less for my retirement and kids college cause lost everything else financially in a bad divorce. Anybody has any tips and tricks to pitch in would be greatly appreciated

Allan, I would suggest swapping the glass beads for aluminum oxide blasting media, and yes blasting media does wear. Also sounds like you need a good tank clean out and add some fresh distilled water and park solution. Some folks like to strain their solution after a few uses letting it flow through a cheese cloth or fine mesh into a bucket. You can get a stainless rod and bend it to hang on the sides of your tank to suspend barrels and other large parts. A simple stainless colander works well for small parts. The heat issue is just something you are going to have to play with until you get the perfect hold temp you want.
 

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You will need to cover your parking tank. Use a piece of plywood if you have too. The solution I use prefers 205 degrees, I cant get above 175 without covering the tank.
 

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parking

I Have a 2 and 1 burner camp stoves that run on 16 oz. lpg.tanks. Also have a propane gas stove. I never had any problem getting it to 195 degrees per instructions that came with solution. Are you trying to do this outside? I do it in the basement no wind. I have several tanks longest is 52 inches. Never had any problems.
 

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tank

your main problem is heat loss due the the high surface area of a rectangular tank, l saw no mention of insulation either. l prefer a cylinder upright tank with strip heater wraped around it and an insulating glass wool jacket around the outside, goes from room temp to 200f in 30 minutes.
 

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Allan

This is the type of burner I have used for years: http://www.amazon.com/Stansport-Triple-Burner-Stove-30x11-Inch/dp/B003IUJST8
45000 btu with all 3 burners on and runs from a 20# tank Get you to 200 f in about 20 min. Crank the burners up so the flame is just licking from under the tank and watch the temp, when you get to 190 turn the burners down to just a blue flame with a lick of white and it will hold perfectly.

I have them back to back on a stand so you can go from park to rinse. End to end would be better if you have the room, less drip and sizzle. Your tanks will fit fine.

Yes, you should filter your solution when it gets grungy and clean the tank of the crystalline buildup when you filter the solution. I also add more concentrate when I add more water. I might be wasting a little concentrate but don't have to re-due parts very often if ever.

If your tank is clean on the bottom laying a part in there is not a problem, just rotate it every 3-4 min or so or lean it on an edge. For small parts use a SS basket or a chrome plated fryer basket and shake the basket every few minutes.

Definitely use Alum oxide (garnet) the brown stuff, stay away from anything Black and watch the nozzle on the gun they do wear out and don't blast well then. Wear a dust mask if you don't have a commercial dust collector.

DO NOT try to park on rainy or high humidity days, the parts will start to micro surface rust while you are dusting them off from the blast cabinet and you will get poor results.

I wipe down the parts with acetone after blowing the dust off before going in the park tank. Just make sure you are in a well ventilated area and have no open flame in the area.

I use a military general purpose light oil mixed with mineral spirits to bath the finished parts, hell for that matter you could use motor oil but cut it with min spirits until its about water thin.


Just my 2 cents

Troy
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Allan, I would suggest swapping the glass beads for aluminum oxide blasting media, and yes blasting media does wear. Also sounds like you need a good tank clean out and add some fresh distilled water and park solution. Some folks like to strain their solution after a few uses letting it flow through a cheese cloth or fine mesh into a bucket. You can get a stainless rod and bend it to hang on the sides of your tank to suspend barrels and other large parts. A simple stainless colander works well for small parts. The heat issue is just something you are going to have to play with until you get the perfect hold temp you want.
I think I will get some new aluminum oxide blasting media, what grit should it be ? I do not want any course stuff cause some parts I will be buffing afterwards to blue them. I think I will strain the present solution and add a little more manganese, and see the results then. Also I am going to drill a second row of holes in the pipe I have and also add another double row pipe and the lids to get the temp up. I am going to be useing the same stand when I go to blue so I have to get temperature way up . Have colanders and hangers all ready and making more of hangers as needed. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I Have a 2 and 1 burner camp stoves that run on 16 oz. lpg.tanks. Also have a propane gas stove. I never had any problem getting it to 195 degrees per instructions that came with solution. Are you trying to do this outside? I do it in the basement no wind. I have several tanks longest is 52 inches. Never had any problems.
I do my parking in my pole barn with the doors wide open, I think I am making my burner into 2 rows of flames and adding a second burner cause going to use same stand for blueing- just switching the tanks to cast ones. Thanks for advice
 

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Discussion Starter #13
your main problem is heat loss due the the high surface area of a rectangular tank, l saw no mention of insulation either. l prefer a cylinder upright tank with strip heater wraped around it and an insulating glass wool jacket around the outside, goes from room temp to 200f in 30 minutes.
I did recently buy a stainless beer keg and cut the top off it, it will be good for smaller parts and should be able to heat up quicker and hotter with it. I do have an old water heater and might take the wrap from it to insulate it. Thanks for the advice
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Allan

This is the type of burner I have used for years: http://www.amazon.com/Stansport-Triple-Burner-Stove-30x11-Inch/dp/B003IUJST8
45000 btu with all 3 burners on and runs from a 20# tank Get you to 200 f in about 20 min. Crank the burners up so the flame is just licking from under the tank and watch the temp, when you get to 190 turn the burners down to just a blue flame with a lick of white and it will hold perfectly.

I have them back to back on a stand so you can go from park to rinse. End to end would be better if you have the room, less drip and sizzle. Your tanks will fit fine.

Yes, you should filter your solution when it gets grungy and clean the tank of the crystalline buildup when you filter the solution. I also add more concentrate when I add more water. I might be wasting a little concentrate but don't have to re-due parts very often if ever.

If your tank is clean on the bottom laying a part in there is not a problem, just rotate it every 3-4 min or so or lean it on an edge. For small parts use a SS basket or a chrome plated fryer basket and shake the basket every few minutes.

Definitely use Alum oxide (garnet) the brown stuff, stay away from anything Black and watch the nozzle on the gun they do wear out and don't blast well then. Wear a dust mask if you don't have a commercial dust collector.

DO NOT try to park on rainy or high humidity days, the parts will start to micro surface rust while you are dusting them off from the blast cabinet and you will get poor results.

I wipe down the parts with acetone after blowing the dust off before going in the park tank. Just make sure you are in a well ventilated area and have no open flame in the area.

I use a military general purpose light oil mixed with mineral spirits to bath the finished parts, hell for that matter you could use motor oil but cut it with min spirits until its about water thin.


Just my 2 cents

Troy

I am going to make 1/4 of my pole barn into a refinishing shop until I get my business building built someday. I think I will add another row of holes and another double row burner and lids to help with the heat problem. I will not park on rainy days and also I have to install a HD water separator from my air compressor. will buy new Alum oxide to use and get a HD dust collector. motor oil sounds good cut with mineral spirits. I have a couple gallons or water displacing oil now butt will run out of it soon. Thanks for all the advice Troy
 

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What 's the deal with not using black media?? What does it do or not do? That's what I got from HF. It's very definitely black. Garnet is red to brown, right??

Tallman, you really should rethink doing that in the basement. Granted, my lungs were compromised years ago from chemical exposure and it makes them very susceptible to injury and infections. It only takes ten minutes cooped up with the park tank to make them ache for two days.
It's doing the same to all of you. You just don't feel it YET. :eek:
Just a matter of time.
Good ventilation is an absolute must.

I'm pretty sure it has also contributed to early rust on some of my equipment. That acid does go airborne some ways. And I hardly ever use it.
 

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Rugman

The black media I tried once left a residual dust on the parts that would not blow or rinse off, had to completely re-due the parts. The Alum oxide (garnet) is the red/brown stuff and always worked the best. It is usually in a 60-80 grit.

Allan
If you are going to blue any parts use the glass beads to strip the parts for polishing and don't get the blast nozzle too close to the part, it's slower to do but will give you a smoother finish. The Garnet is going to be too rough of a finish for bluing.

Here's a tip for ya-all, Charcoal lighter fluid is a low odor/odorless mineral spirits, sometimes it cheaper buying the lighter fluid than a gallon of solvent.

I have never blued with salts, but it is a very special setup and the vapors are more dangerous than park sol.. For bluing I have always used Oxpho Blue from Brownells. It is a hot water bluing process, kind of like a rust bluing but pretty fast to do and only need 2 tanks and a buffing wheel with a fine carding wheel. Been real happy with the results, have redone several old shotguns with it and it blends well with most blues when touching up cold, although it works best if you warm the parts.
 

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Good to know. Thanks Troy. I always just thought it was supposed to be a dusty mess. It gets real hard to see inside the cabinet even with the vacuum going. Have to wipe down the inside plastic cover often. That sucks.This explains why.
I get my low odor mineral spirits and acetone from Homeless Despot. Pretty cheap there.
I get the phosphoric acid from here; http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=FGphos
The Manganese comes from some online pottery shop. Had it for so long I forget the name of the place. The shipping actually was more than the product. Really, really cheap.
Bruce :)
 
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