WTK:WTT: ZB series and Bren comparisons and parts study ALSO parts to trade

12290 Views 64 Replies 14 Participants Last post by 139aw, 13 d ago

ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · Dec 4, 2019 (Edited)

Been going threw my ZB gun parts lately and decided to post some info on these guns since there seems to be a bit of confusion on them, and on how to tell them apart. I am by no means a expert on these so if you notice something that I post is incorrect please speak up. I am here to learn from others and hopefully some will learn from this post. Also I am hoping I will be able to complete some of my kits that are missing pieces from members here who have extra or wrong parts in their kits. And If I have extra that a member needs I might be able to trade parts for. I have heard that alot of these ZB kits were sold by the retailers mixed up with different parts that are NOT compatible with each other. CHECK your kits ! So I am going to begin with ZB barrels

Ok here are all 3 ZB barrels - differences are
ZB26 shallow cut out for extractor
ZB30 & ZB30J deep cut out for extractor
ZB26 NO gas adjustment collar
ZB30 & ZB30J has gas adjustment collars
All 3 have different flash hiders
ZB30J has "knurled section" under carry handle
ZB26 & ZB30 ribbed all the way
The ZB30 and ZB30J CANNOT be interchanged, gas port is at different position and thus op rods are different lengths
anybody else notice anything different ?

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update- I have only heard (though never seen) that there were zb26 barrels made or modified for a gas adjustment collar. Can anybody confirm this ?

Currently I have plenty of ZB30J barrels and I am in the need of 1-2 ZB30 barrels, anybody have extra ZB30 barrel(s) willing to trade for ZB30J barrel(s) one for one same condition
Also I am in the need for a NICE ZB26 and ZB30 flash hiders

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ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · #2 · Dec 4, 2019 (Edited)

Next up comparison is the op rod, I have included the BREN in this because although the Bren was developed from the ZB its parts are really different
I believe the BREN op rods are interchangeable but NONE of the ZB op rods are

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I am in the need of a ZB30J PISTON only, I have extra ZB30 and ZB26 pistons to trade

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ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 4, 2019

Next the BOLTS included is the BREN again

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I also noticed that the extractor is narrower on the ZB26 bolt but all the rest are the same width BUT WITH the exception of the "lip" or the part that grabs onto the cartridge itself is different between the different calipers.

pic shows close up of the WIDTH of extractors - look closely at the ZB26 to the ZB30 beside it

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I have heard references on BREN Mk1 bolts and BREN Mk2 bolts, I do not know the difference but recently have noticed a few of my Bren bolts have 2 holes in the face, Similar to the ZB39 bolt pictured, I could not find anything on the web about it, Does anybody know here ?

Lastly I need a ZB30J bolt, I have ZB26 bolts to trade

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ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · #4 · Dec 4, 2019

The charging handles are different width zb verses Bren so they will NOT interchange. From what I understand the Bren Mk1 and Bren Mk2 (not pictured) will interchange, I have not tried to interchange the ZB charging handle but I am assuming they will. Can anybody verify this ?

BREN = 1/2 inch wide
ZB= 7/16 inch wide

Sorry about the position of the photos, they get turned around when I upload them
Top= ZB30
Middle= BREN
bottom=ZB26

I am looking for the small detent and spring in the ZB26 handle, they are SMALLER than the Mk1 detent

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ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 4, 2019

I am out of time tonight but will continue later if there is interest in this subject. I love to make good use of my "down time" at work LOL

brit plumber

· #6 · Dec 4, 2019

The carry handle on the ZB26 barrel looks to be a Brit Bren Mk2 handle.

The Mk1 Bren breech block has 2 gas vent holes where the Mk2 doesn’t (except I don’t think they called them Mk1 and 2).

The Mk1 and 2 cocking handle/slides aren’t interchangeable without modifying the body. There was a Bren MkII/1 which had the body modified for the Mk1 handle. Some of these were converted to L4A3 so are quite scarce.

The piston rods are all interchangeable between all Brens except the ZB Bren as the ZB threads are square versus the rounded tops of the Commonwealth guns. A commonwealth piston MAY fit a ZB gun but I’ve not tried it.

Reactions: 1

42rocker

· #7 · Dec 4, 2019 (Edited)

ajmdreammg42
THANK YOU for this guide. Looking at it I have to think about how many folks have zb parts in their Bren parts kits.
Please add more and more to this. Love it when folks are willing to share info like this.
Really need to review some of my parts now. The Bren op rod looks very close to one of the zb op rods.

Later 42rocker

btwiest

· #8 · Dec 4, 2019

Great pics on the diff parts. I only ever had 1 ZB26 and 1 ZB30 kit, both long gone. I did have a ZB39 semi at one time with a kit, also sold. I do have a bunch of ZB39 mags though. Thanks for taking the time to post this info.

ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 5, 2019

brit plumber said:
The carry handle on the ZB26 barrel looks to be a Brit Bren Mk2 handle.

The Mk1 Bren breech block has 2 gas vent holes where the Mk2 doesnâ€™t (except I donâ€™t think they called them Mk1 and 2).

The Mk1 and 2 cocking handle/slides arenâ€™t interchangeable without modifying the body. There was a Bren MkII/1 which had the body modified for the Mk1 handle. Some of these were converted to L4A3 so are quite scarce.

The piston rods are all interchangeable between all Brens except the ZB Bren as the ZB threads are square versus the rounded tops of the Commonwealth guns. A commonwealth piston MAY fit a ZB gun but Iâ€™ve not tried it.

Brit plumber,
You are right, The ZB26 barrel DID have a Bren Mk 2 handle on it, now its fixed and checked the rest of my ZB barrels. That was a miss on my behalf- GREAT CATCH THANKS !!

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So now I know the bren bolts (breech blocks) with the gas vent holes are Mk1 and ones with out are Mk2, except they (British) do not refer them as such. Guess war time expenditures needed to be cut down and production moved up.
Mk1 on left Mk2 on right

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I tried the interchangeability for the cocking handles and your right again ! They do NOT interchange. where you a British commando at one time ? LOL. The Mk1 rec slide slot contour is different than the Mk2- they lock in place with different designs - NOTE*** the Mk1 slide is not in the groove, just above it because that re-welded rec has not been ground down yet

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Did not try the ZB39/bren piston interchange ability but will take your word on that

Thanks again brit plumber and thanks for the words of encouragement 42rocker and BTweist to continue this thread

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ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 5, 2019

ZB lower receiver comparison. The ZB26 and the ZB30J has the main spring housing mounted lower compared to the ZB30. I believe the ZB26 and ZB30J will interchange but they will NOT interchange with the ZB30. I tried a ZB30 buttstock on a ZB26 lower and it does fit. Also I believe I have used the trigger assy group parts threw out the ZB AND BREN family, I have not tried all combinations so there might be a exception.

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brit plumber

· #11 · Dec 5, 2019

ajmdreammg42 said:
They do NOT interchange. where you a British commando at one time ? LOL. The Mk1 rec slide slot contour is different than the Mk2- they lock in place with different designs - NOTE*** the Mk1 slide is not in the groove, just above it because that re-welded rec has not been ground down yet

Not a commando, not brave enough for that. Just a regular military armourer with and interest in and access to a lot of Bren variations.

42rocker

· #12 · Dec 6, 2019

More More PLEASE.

Thanks for sharing this info.. I've been working on my copper plates for the Bren weld up jig.

Later 42rocker

ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · #13 · Dec 9, 2019 (Edited)

Ok here are the barrel nuts/latches for the ZB series guns, looks like they will NOT interchange with each other. Looks like they have different tabs around the collar preventing them from going into the wrong gun
The ZB30 and ZB30J looks almost the same but the way it latches to the receiver is different.

(Top ZB30)(Middle ZB26)(Bottom ZB30J)

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(Top ZB30j)(Middle ZB30)(Bottom ZB26)

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(top ZB30J)(Middle ZB30)(bottom ZB26)

I need a ZB30J barrel nut, have one that someone ground down the tab on it. I have extra ZB30 barrel nuts to trade

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ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · #14 · Dec 9, 2019

The Bren barrel nuts are alot larger in diameter than the ZB series. Looks like I have found in the Bren barrel nuts just 2 different variations in the ones I have. I am Not 100% sure but I would think the one that has the outside of the handle machined is the Mk1 type. Even in the Mk3 kits I got came with the same type as the Mk2. Anybody know the difference for sure ?

BREN verses ZB

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(Left Bren Mk2)(Right Bren Mk1) I THINK ???

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ajmdreammg42

Discussion Starter · #15 · Dec 9, 2019

42rocker said:
More More PLEASE.

Thanks for sharing this info.. I've been working on my copper plates for the Bren weld up jig.

Later 42rocker

Great, how about some pics on how to fill large gaps in the receiver cuts ? And dealing with any warpage

brit plumber

· #16 · Dec 9, 2019

Left are Mk2 and right are Mk3. Mk1 is like the Mk3 but the sides of the handle are more like the Mk2 (not waisted).

The Mk1 was replaced by the Mk2 in 1941. The Mk3 in 1944 and of course they are interchangeable but do have different sizes for breaching up.

The Mk1 has a tab on the outside of the nut section to stop the piston extension moving forward when the barrel lock isn’t fully engaged. This is to stop a round being fired in a barrel not locked to the body. These tabs were ground off in 1940/41 and are quite rare now. I suspect these tabs on the ZB nuts are what you think stop the nuts being fitted to the wrong gun.

42rocker

· #17 · Dec 10, 2019

ajmdreammg42 & Brit Plumber
THANKS for posting this info. It's Great, any more areas that you want to share that's Great also.

ajmdreammg42
Enjoyed talking with you on the phone as to welding things up and other things. And GLAD to hear your son is doing well. As I stated I will not have that info till next year as I'm just getting things ready to start welding. Myself, I keep changing my mine about using weld to fill in the torch gaps or cut pieces from another receiver and patch and fill and then weld. It used to be said anything less than 1/8" weld it up, anything larger then patch it and then weld it up. I have done very little welding and this up coming Bren welding will be my first major welding event. Planning to use TIG for my welder. I know a lot of folks use MIG and I could but I'm going to try TIG first. If nothing else I can cut it apart and try MIG next. I know some folks like MIG for the deep stuff and then TIG it up after. I'll try to share the learning curve.
Will also try to post a few pics of the different types of Bren Lowers that I have sometime.

Later 42rocker
Happy Holidays Everyone!!

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brit plumber

· #18 · Dec 10, 2019

Lowers can be a bit of a mine field if the serial number has been removed (India and Greece!!!!). There’s at least 10 variations.

42rocker

· #19 · Dec 10, 2019 (Edited)

"10 variations" OMG I thought it might be just a simple 3 or 4 types having to do with the area around the fire control group (FCG) area and the back of it (finned or block). And of course the normal longer mk1 vs shorter mk2.
Brit Plumber
Your nice group of pics on the other site showed the (my names for the areas) Fancy vs Block FCG area and the back area of Finned vs Block. Is there a lot more differences that you can see on the lower slide? I have noticed on the mk2 a longer block area on some. This is an area that I wanted to study some more, but right now have been trying to fit a couple of Mk1 Double Dovetails (mgs cuts) on my welding jigs. More on that later. I've almost got a mk2 (I O cut) receiver ready to think about welding up.
Thanks for this sharing. Been very interesting.

Later 42rocker

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brit plumber

· #20 · Dec 10, 2019

So there’s an early machined version for the DD guns, then the simplified Mk1 version which is different between Inglis, Enfield and Lithgow. Then the Mk2 version from Monotype and Inglis which are different. Then the Enfield Mk3 has at least 2 versions. There’s also a Mk2 version modified to Mk3 type spec.

Then there’s the commercial ZB Bren guns with at least 2 variations!

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