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Well, nobody has posted any comments on the growing conflict between Israel and it's enemies. Think it's just another passing skirmish or a prelude to a bigger event of Biblical proportions???
WWlll??
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886 Posts
Im sick of all of it,,,seems the battle will go on forever,,,we get in the middle of too much stuff,,we dont need to be the world police,,,Im sorry about the loss of life but no matter what we do/dont do it will continue,,,I bet if we told the ********* we will not buy one drop of oil untill they resolve their issues,,,about 1 week after a oil back up the middle east would be very nice to all. If we just delt with Russia we would have plenty of oil,and cut the middle east out,,,they would beg for us to buy some oil(cheap).
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2,700 Posts
The only reason we have ever even spoken with the Arab nations is because they have oil. With world wide demand (which is growing) so closely matching world wide supply, we'll be forced to continue talking to them for the forseeable future. Russia? are you sure you want to rely on them for energy? It was just last winter they cut off the natural gas to Europe, just to show they could.
The scenario that keeps the powers that be up nights: Iran stops exports, while simultaneously sending cronies to take Nigeria's production off line, and launch a 911 style attack against the Saudi's loading terminal. If they can time it to coincide with son of Katrina taking the Gulf platforms off line, all western economies will collapse in less than 30 days. $80 oil? We'll be lucky to get it for $200 a barrel.
We always assumed the oil would keep flowing. No matter what tin-pot dictator or wack job controlled the fields, they'd sell it to us because they needed the money. That assumption may no longer be valid.
MSG
The scenario that keeps the powers that be up nights: Iran stops exports, while simultaneously sending cronies to take Nigeria's production off line, and launch a 911 style attack against the Saudi's loading terminal. If they can time it to coincide with son of Katrina taking the Gulf platforms off line, all western economies will collapse in less than 30 days. $80 oil? We'll be lucky to get it for $200 a barrel.
We always assumed the oil would keep flowing. No matter what tin-pot dictator or wack job controlled the fields, they'd sell it to us because they needed the money. That assumption may no longer be valid.
MSG
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4,427 Posts
welcome to the reality of WW3 the first economic and asymetric warfare , war where terrorists are the insturment of oil producing islamic fanatic nations working to control the world energy production and stick it to the infidels ,while killing some too
it started with the first WTC bombing and now is in the first stages of full blown battle , it is only going to get worse from here on out
it will spread slowly across the world and arrive on our shores soon 99% of us will be SOL poor and the gov couldn`t care less so we may have to battle each other soon just to survive ,i am ready ARE you
it started with the first WTC bombing and now is in the first stages of full blown battle , it is only going to get worse from here on out
it will spread slowly across the world and arrive on our shores soon 99% of us will be SOL poor and the gov couldn`t care less so we may have to battle each other soon just to survive ,i am ready ARE you
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2,203 Posts
i heard Newt Gingrich
use the analogy on meet the press this past sunday. not sure i agree with it but it sure got my attention. he says that the war has already begun and the events of the last three weeks are coordinated. the north korean missles, the bombing of the indian trains, the israelis and the hezbollah, the iranians, the war in Iraq, the plot on the holland tunnel and some other recent events. he'll be interviewed on Fox tomorrow if anyone is interested in his comments
use the analogy on meet the press this past sunday. not sure i agree with it but it sure got my attention. he says that the war has already begun and the events of the last three weeks are coordinated. the north korean missles, the bombing of the indian trains, the israelis and the hezbollah, the iranians, the war in Iraq, the plot on the holland tunnel and some other recent events. he'll be interviewed on Fox tomorrow if anyone is interested in his comments
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I watched a lot of what Newt said too and it's kinda scary. I'm afraid that when it comes to keeping oil production flowing, the US isn't going to mince a lot of words and will take drastic measures to ensure it still flows. If anything would provoke a nuclear strike it would be that and I think we're going to end up making an example of someone and hope, like Kadafi, that they learn.
George W and the US have done a really good job keeping our retaliation on Iraq focused on terrorism and not let it get out of hand into a religious war involving Israel and Muslims. Right now we're keeping allies like Saudi Arabia in our corner, but if this thing becomes a religious war then Saudi Arabia and the rest of our Arab oil producing allies will have no choice but to align with their Muslim brothers which will put them squarely at odds with our alliance with Israel...super bad ju ju.
I wish Castro would hurry up and become extinct and maybe there's a chance we can cut a deal with a successor that's reasonable and tap that oil supply instead of China.
It's probably just coincidence, but Road Warrior was on this weekend...a good post apocalyptic movie. I guess I could mount a 30 cal and the 50 on the Viper and add a little armor plating and I'm good to go.
George W and the US have done a really good job keeping our retaliation on Iraq focused on terrorism and not let it get out of hand into a religious war involving Israel and Muslims. Right now we're keeping allies like Saudi Arabia in our corner, but if this thing becomes a religious war then Saudi Arabia and the rest of our Arab oil producing allies will have no choice but to align with their Muslim brothers which will put them squarely at odds with our alliance with Israel...super bad ju ju.
I wish Castro would hurry up and become extinct and maybe there's a chance we can cut a deal with a successor that's reasonable and tap that oil supply instead of China.
It's probably just coincidence, but Road Warrior was on this weekend...a good post apocalyptic movie. I guess I could mount a 30 cal and the 50 on the Viper and add a little armor plating and I'm good to go.
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1,239 Posts
Oh no
Oh no, not WWIII well I've been getting plenty of practice playing medal of honor on the Playstation 2... Guess I should start digging my bunker and stocking up on Coke and Cheetos never hurts to be prepared. The fact of the matter is that this country is not prepared for such an engagement our own government has depleted the american people of the facilities and raw materials that we would need to engage in such a battle... Were not just talking about missles and ammo here guys were talking about all the raw materials needed to make military hardware... We rely on steel coming in from China for crying out loud because the EPA people imposed to many restrictions; how many large american foundries are left? The world economy sucks we need to stop dibble dabbing in other peoples affairs and concentrate on our own and begin a plan of american self reliance.
Oh no, not WWIII well I've been getting plenty of practice playing medal of honor on the Playstation 2... Guess I should start digging my bunker and stocking up on Coke and Cheetos never hurts to be prepared.
The fact of the matter is that this country is not prepared for such an engagement our own government has depleted the american people of the facilities and raw materials that we would need to engage in such a battle... Were not just talking about missles and ammo here guys were talking about all the raw materials needed to make military hardware... We rely on steel coming in from China for crying out loud because the EPA people imposed to many restrictions; how many large american foundries are left? The world economy sucks we need to stop dibble dabbing in other peoples affairs and concentrate on our own and begin a plan of american self reliance.
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749 Posts
Lobo, i'm already welding armor plating to my chevelle and placing a fifty on the hood, all I have to do is turn the vehicle and clear a path . Just joking, although I always thought living in the days of Mad Max would be exciting.
. Just joking, although I always thought living in the days of Mad Max would be exciting.
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2,700 Posts
Actually we're in the middle of WW-IV, We won III, currently known as the Cold War.
We no longer fight wars in a manner that requires a WW-II style industrial base. Targets are destroyed with less than 1/100th the tonnage as used in Vietnam. Less than in even GW-1. We can destroy any nation's military and infrastructure, the problem is occupying territory requires boots on the ground, and that gets messy.
We know how to defeat an insurgency too, the Brits pioneered the technique during the Boar War. Problem: that gets messy too (first use of concentration camps), particularly with a free press wandering about.
Of course the current conflict is coordinated. Right now the media is concetrating on "Israel's overaction," not Iran's Nuke's. Iran controls both Hezbollah and Hamas - hmmmmm. We can't get any traction on sanctions against Iran or North Korea because of China's and Russia's Security Council veto threat. Why wouldn't they want those situations resolved? - hmmmmm. Then we might have more time and resources to worry about their growing economic and military power. Maybe it's time to yank China's MFN status. Of course consumer products will double in price.
To live in interesting times...
MSG
We no longer fight wars in a manner that requires a WW-II style industrial base. Targets are destroyed with less than 1/100th the tonnage as used in Vietnam. Less than in even GW-1. We can destroy any nation's military and infrastructure, the problem is occupying territory requires boots on the ground, and that gets messy.
We know how to defeat an insurgency too, the Brits pioneered the technique during the Boar War. Problem: that gets messy too (first use of concentration camps), particularly with a free press wandering about.
Of course the current conflict is coordinated. Right now the media is concetrating on "Israel's overaction," not Iran's Nuke's. Iran controls both Hezbollah and Hamas - hmmmmm. We can't get any traction on sanctions against Iran or North Korea because of China's and Russia's Security Council veto threat. Why wouldn't they want those situations resolved? - hmmmmm. Then we might have more time and resources to worry about their growing economic and military power. Maybe it's time to yank China's MFN status. Of course consumer products will double in price.
To live in interesting times...
MSG
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292 Posts
Does anyone here remember the Oil Embargo in '73 during the Yom Kippur War. OPEC countries said they would not ship petroleum to countries that supported Israel during the war. HELLO!!!!!!! This could happen at any time. This country could not with stand a crisis like that. The economy would fall like a SR-71 at MACH 5 in a noise dive. We need to become energy independent now more than ever. More Nuclear Reactors, Oil Refineries, Oil Platforms. If we don't now we will have HELL to pay!!! (WERE ALMOST THERE NOW)
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All we need to do is start supplying the Chechens with enough stuff to wreak havoc all over Moscow, while leaving a trail that appears to go direct to Iran's radical fundamentalist regime. If Russia thought that Iran was supporting Chechen rebels it would turn on Iran in an instant. Think how much easier that would make things for us. The CIA outta be able to pull that off!
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Don't know that I'd go along with the idea that all the troublemakers are coordinated - most of them seem hopelessly uncoordinated in feeding their own people. But they will certainly take advantage of each others' actions. As soon as it became obvious that we were wallowing in Iraq (the new Viet Nam), the little countries felt safer about flexing their muscles and making threats. But if we could come to a sudden resolution in Iraq, I bet a bunch of those small countries would quietly step back.
Our biggest problem is that we have become horribly dependent on some whacko countries and regimes. As long as they are allowed that control over us, we're at their mercy. Drilling in Alaska will be nothing but a temprorary easing of the headache. Not a cure. Likewise with Oklahoma. With our current technologies and society, we'll be back in the middle east begging for oil in no time. Our only escape will be to cut our petroleum needs, either through decreasing how much we need, or by replacing it with something else. Any of you drive gas-guzzlers? OPEC thanks you. So does Iran.
As has been pointed out - the old style war is gone. The new battlefields will be economic ones, with guerilla forces and terrorists tossed in for good measure. Because the "enemy" is spread all over the world, nuking a few middle eastern countries would do nothing useful. We'd just close down the oil fields for a while, crush the world's economy, and launch a million warlords and tribal leaders. The centralized target went out with WWII.
The current middle east situation is nothing new. It's been going on since Alexander the Great invaded the area. And the same tribes are still fighting in the same towns. Weapons technologies have changed, borders and countries have come and gone, but the rest remains the same. Too bad we stepped into the middle of it. We won't end it or cure it. I just hope we can get enough good out of it to make the losses worthwhile.
The most painful aspect of this is that we have the technology available to make ourselves much less dependent on middle eastern oil. Nuclear energy really is safe and clean if managed correctly, and we could provide all the heating and power we need if we'd stop our paranoia about nuclear fuel. We could reduce our gasoline consumption a lot if we simply acknowledged it was a good idea and demanded fuel-efficient cars from U.S. manufacturers. But we won't. We'll continue on our current course until we hit a wall, and then look for someone to blame.
Our biggest problem is that we have become horribly dependent on some whacko countries and regimes. As long as they are allowed that control over us, we're at their mercy. Drilling in Alaska will be nothing but a temprorary easing of the headache. Not a cure. Likewise with Oklahoma. With our current technologies and society, we'll be back in the middle east begging for oil in no time. Our only escape will be to cut our petroleum needs, either through decreasing how much we need, or by replacing it with something else. Any of you drive gas-guzzlers? OPEC thanks you. So does Iran.
As has been pointed out - the old style war is gone. The new battlefields will be economic ones, with guerilla forces and terrorists tossed in for good measure. Because the "enemy" is spread all over the world, nuking a few middle eastern countries would do nothing useful. We'd just close down the oil fields for a while, crush the world's economy, and launch a million warlords and tribal leaders. The centralized target went out with WWII.
The current middle east situation is nothing new. It's been going on since Alexander the Great invaded the area. And the same tribes are still fighting in the same towns. Weapons technologies have changed, borders and countries have come and gone, but the rest remains the same. Too bad we stepped into the middle of it. We won't end it or cure it. I just hope we can get enough good out of it to make the losses worthwhile.
The most painful aspect of this is that we have the technology available to make ourselves much less dependent on middle eastern oil. Nuclear energy really is safe and clean if managed correctly, and we could provide all the heating and power we need if we'd stop our paranoia about nuclear fuel. We could reduce our gasoline consumption a lot if we simply acknowledged it was a good idea and demanded fuel-efficient cars from U.S. manufacturers. But we won't. We'll continue on our current course until we hit a wall, and then look for someone to blame.
WE ARE THE ENEMY..When i was a kid we heated homes with coal.kerosene and wood.No one drove their car to the mall to shop.No one ate breakfast ,lunch and dinner in a restaurant.Life today is very much different..If we stop this madness of buying everything in sight we will not need foreign oil,neither will anyone else..Order another pizza delivered to your home and you become the enemy..If everyone changed their lifestyle,we all win..Plant a victory garden..
What is this ? The sixth time Lebanon has been wasted in my lifetime?
Bunch of dumb asses can't even scrape the sh*t off their own shoes.
Truth be told most Arabs can't stand the Palestinians; their own red headed step children.
I wonder who's going to get the contract to rebuild Beruit?
I might want to sink some spare cash into it, after all it's one of the worlds most beautiful cities.
Bunch of dumb asses can't even scrape the sh*t off their own shoes.
Truth be told most Arabs can't stand the Palestinians; their own red headed step children.
I wonder who's going to get the contract to rebuild Beruit?
I might want to sink some spare cash into it, after all it's one of the worlds most beautiful cities.
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When GW-1 kicked off, my brother gave me a call. He said he was doing his part by ditching his 8 mpg commercial vehicle for a 14 mpg turbo diesel. This guy that barely scraped through High School gets it, 90% of the US population still doesn't. Every time I see someone commuting to work in a "Super Duty - King Cab - Off Road - 4WD" whatever, I want to f**king scream. I've pointed out to a few of my friends and relatives that I can: tow my boat, carry drywall home in the rain, and still get 24 mpg. Their trucks are one-for-three by that measure, if they bought a hitch. These conversations soon reveal that utility doesn't drive their vehicle purchase decisions.
Yes I know my view on this is a little outside the norm, particularly in this crowd. Then again, between 1962 and 1985 my jock, vet, biker dad drove a Triumph Herald, a Datsun 510, and a piece if s*** Mustang II. I guess that's why the 3 commuter cars I've owned all got over 30 mpg. My Vibe is big by Europiean standards, then again their purchase decisions are generally driven by the $6.50 (yes $6.50) a gallon they pay for gas.
Yes we need to drill more in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico, yes we need more nukes - and a breeder reactor to reprocess spent fuel (only 2% of the potential energy has been extracted), but more than anything else we need to stop living our lives in ways that enrich those that want to kill us.
I'll shut up now.
MSG
Yes I know my view on this is a little outside the norm, particularly in this crowd. Then again, between 1962 and 1985 my jock, vet, biker dad drove a Triumph Herald, a Datsun 510, and a piece if s*** Mustang II. I guess that's why the 3 commuter cars I've owned all got over 30 mpg. My Vibe is big by Europiean standards, then again their purchase decisions are generally driven by the $6.50 (yes $6.50) a gallon they pay for gas.
Yes we need to drill more in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico, yes we need more nukes - and a breeder reactor to reprocess spent fuel (only 2% of the potential energy has been extracted), but more than anything else we need to stop living our lives in ways that enrich those that want to kill us.
I'll shut up now.
MSG
g3 one must kill the enemy where one finds him. Sux for Beirut right now.But they don't seem to be able to keep the sh*t heads out. Besides that; they cant even control their borders enough to keep out the missiles. Kind of hard to blame them though we can't keep out the Illeagals.
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