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I thought the pre-86 samples could not be inherited. But others here likely have a better knowledge of that than I do.

And as Dan was stating, you have to be in business. Like for real in business. Not just collections
 

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My first was a WH M1 . Yes , I watched Combat as a kid . Paid $750 for it back in the early '80s . My second was a M-16 and a bunch of different uppers . Sold that one in a weak moment , wished I had kept it . Now into scoped AR SBRs with binary triggers due to failing eyesight and high FA prices
Chris
 

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Oh , as a PS , I bought the complete Combat series , Sargent Sanders carried a '28 . Funny how your mind recalls things . Perhaps it was because my Mattel was an M1 ?
Chris
 

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And as Dan was stating, you have to be in business. Like for real in business. Not just collections
That's really what's holding me back. (well, when I move out of NY anyways) I just dont have the skill or financial backing to open up a real manufacturing operation. I read a post somewhere on this topic and the general idea was that you'd need 20 grand just to get started and you'd still be operating a at a loss.

Ive often playfully commented that I want to find a shop that's selling a FA Uzi and put it on a lay away payment plan for 5 years. Hopefully it would be all paid off and ready to transfer to me when I get to a free state. 😆
 

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Oh , as a PS , I bought the complete Combat series , Sargent Sanders carried a '28 . Funny how your mind recalls things . Perhaps it was because my Mattel was an M1 ?
Chris

One of my favorite shows as a kid the 60s. "Combat" is the only reason I can give for owning my BAR.
 

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I'm going to make you sick.
1971, a MG42 for $200 plus the $200 stamp. It was a 1944 manufactured that was captured and reworked by the French, bought by Israel and used in the 1967 war. Brought back to the US by a volunteer who registered it during the 1968 amnesty. His wife didn't want it "Around the House" so he offered it to me for $200. It is well used, but a bit unusual as it has three sets of stamps on it. Still have it, and still shoot it once in a while.
 

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I'm going to make you sick.
1971, a MG42 for $200 plus the $200 stamp. It was a 1944 manufactured that was captured and reworked by the French, bought by Israel and used in the 1967 war. Brought back to the US by a volunteer who registered it during the 1968 amnesty. His wife didn't want it "Around the House" so he offered it to me for $200. It is well used, but a bit unusual as it has three sets of stamps on it. Still have it, and still shoot it once in a while.
thats about $1250 in today money. Ill do you a solid and just offer you $3,000 for it.
 

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Coming from a completely non-gun area and only shooting my first gun in about 2003 or so... at the age of about 21...

In 2006 I think it was, I bought a Mac (M11/9) and the free suppressor it came with for $2.5K. The M11/9 in its stock state is a not very fun bullet hose. However Lage Manufacturing changed all that. With Lage and the Tungsten bolt, the upgraded M11/9 today is very much on the same level as the Uzi. I would argue, its still a must buy for any shooter MG owner. I still have mine and shoot it often. If you shoot it next to a MP5, I think with little argument the best SMG in private hands today, you would agree see that the MP5 does shoot a bit better but not 3-4 time the money better. The Uzi is a great gun. I think today the Uzi is far less flexible than the M11/9 and they shoot about as well as each other. The Uzi has better double stack mags but the new steel mags for the M11/9 are great. The upgrades for the M11/9 can run optics better, 72rd drums and there is even a 223 upper out for it. With Uzis being 12K-14K and the M11/9 about $8k....you can easily trick out the mac cheaper than buying the Uzi. So I suggest that the Mac has surpassed the Uzi in todays market.

When I suggest MGs to people, as I do all the time as VP for my local MG club, I suggest:

SMG: M11/9 or M11a1 with Lage or Tungsten upgrades. ($8K plus $1.5K average upgrades)
Assault Rifle: M16 for economy a Colt 614, Sendra Conversion or Colt SP1 conversion in that order. ($19k-$22K) or a M16A1 if money is not an issue.
Belt Fed: 1919a4 ($15Kish)

These three MGs give you the best guns with the widest range of MG shooting that might be affordable to the more average MG owner. If you have these three, I feel like the average MG shooter could be more than happy for the rest of his life. Yes there are other great guns, but this is my "must have list" for a Shooter (not collector). I myself have done the M11/9, Sendra conversion M16, and I substituted a pair of Maxims (08 and 08/15) for the 1919a4 but we all know to most, the 1919a4 is the better way to go! :) Uzis, MP5s are great guns, there are no box mag LMGs on the list, no heavy MGs on the list... but under $50K, you can do the most and have the most fun with the list above. The list above also gives you the best guns for converting calibers which is proving pretty important. The Mac and M16 are registered lowers and new uppers are coming out every year upgrading this guns to the latest and greatest. This will not be possible with Uzis, MP5s, FNCs...etc.

So if you want to buy your first MG... I say M11/9 or M11A1 or Sendra M16 conversion.... assuming money is serious concern like it is for most of us.
 

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Loved the Untouchables and Combat as a kid. Bought NIB WH 28 Thompson In 1978 for $650. Sent it to PK in Colorado and had him go thru it. Runs 100% and is smooth as silk. Still have it today.
 

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I thought the pre-86 samples could not be inherited. But others here likely have a better knowledge of that than I do.

And as Dan was stating, you have to be in business. Like for real in business. Not just collections
Sure, I get that, but when your average transferable is 20-50K and your average pre-86 is like 5-15K, there is a BIG incentive to jump through the hoops, no? How hard is it to buy and later sell a few post 86érs. There is no requirement ti make money, ATF just checks your book for buys and sells. If you buy it for $10K and Sell it for $10,001.00 a few years later, who's to say you're not in business. Maybe everyone already does this and I've touched on the "big secret"? I'm sure that if you are doing just that you wouldn't post about it on a random gun board I suppose. Being in a No NFA state, I really don't have a dog in the fight or ability to engage either way, but an item of intellectual curiosity nonetheless.
 

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First NFA for me was M-16A1 back in '98. Basically brand new for $3200. Now that was a huge price for me at the time but I thought the M-16 was so cool after seeing them in all the movies. I remember my dealer was trying to talk me into a AC556 for about $1400 if I remember right. I'm sure glad I went with the Colt. Still have it and still my favorite.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I'm going to make you sick.
1971, a MG42 for $200 plus the $200 stamp. It was a 1944 manufactured that was captured and reworked by the French, bought by Israel and used in the 1967 war. Brought back to the US by a volunteer who registered it during the 1968 amnesty. His wife didn't want it "Around the House" so he offered it to me for $200. It is well used, but a bit unusual as it has three sets of stamps on it. Still have it, and still shoot it once in a while.
HAHA I've personally never seen one sell under $20,000 since I started collecting albeit I've only started since graduating. But yes I do in fact feel a little queasy now XD
 

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...
The list above also gives you the best guns for converting calibers which is proving pretty important. The Mac and M16 are registered lowers and new uppers are coming out every year upgrading this guns to the latest and greatest. This will not be possible with Uzis, MP5s, FNCs...etc.
...
Well, I have an HK .22lr conversion for my MP5. It works just fine.


I also have a Fleming .22lr conversion for my MP5. It also works fine.




Do you remember the 9mm Swedish training ammo that was sold many years ago? It has a 9mm NATO profile, but it fired a 5.5mm steel BB. People were giving this ammo away because they could not shoot it in their 9mm chambered weapons. Anyway Luis Morales from South Texas was selling Uzi barrels that were made to fire this ammo. I got a barrel from Luis and then got a few thousand rounds of this Swedish stuff. It is surprisingly accurate out to 50 meters in my Vector Uzi.




Loved the Untouchables and Combat as a kid. Bought NIB WH 28 Thompson In 1978 for $650. Sent it to PK in Colorado and had him go thru it. Runs 100% and is smooth as silk. Still have it today.
Ah yes, PK.


He also performed his tuning magic on my WH 28 Thompson and marked the receiver saying so..





Paul fit and tuned an original Bazooka Brothers .22lr conversion kit to my 28 Thompson. This setup uses steel magazines.






This .22lr conversion is the cleanest firing I have. I can go 1200+ rounds before cleaning in needed. It is also has the slowest ROF of any other I have. I don't know what Paul did, but the ROF is less than 500 RPM.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Well, I have an HK .22lr conversion for my MP5. It works just fine.


I also have a Fleming .22lr conversion for my MP5. It also works fine.




Do you remember the 9mm Swedish training ammo that was sold many years ago? It has a 9mm NATO profile, but it fired a 5.5mm steel BB. People were giving this ammo away because they could not shoot it in their 9mm chambered weapons. Anyway Luis Morales from South Texas was selling Uzi barrels that were made to fire this ammo. I got a barrel from Luis and then got a few thousand rounds of this Swedish stuff. It is surprisingly accurate out to 50 meters in my Vector Uzi.






Ah yes, PK.


He also performed his tuning magic on my WH 28 Thompson and marked the receiver saying so..





Paul fit and tuned an original Bazooka Brothers .22lr conversion kit to my 28 Thompson. This setup uses steel magazines.






This .22lr conversion is the cleanest firing I have. I can go 1200+ rounds before cleaning in needed. It is also has the slowest ROF of any other I have. I don't know what Paul did, but the ROF is less than 500 RPM.
Wow the last image is both cursed and beautiful what an odd look for a M1 to have a curved magazine
 

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My first full auto was a beautiful Mp44 that came with amnesty papers. Bought it because it fell in my lap from the veteran whom liberated in ‘44 from Bastogne. This is still my favorite firearm I own.
CaptMax
16B53AFC-D9CB-44DD-8B21-272D11DD2244.jpeg
 

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Sure, I get that, but when your average transferable is 20-50K and your average pre-86 is like 5-15K, there is a BIG incentive to jump through the hoops, no? How hard is it to buy and later sell a few post 86érs. There is no requirement ti make money, ATF just checks your book for buys and sells. If you buy it for $10K and Sell it for $10,001.00 a few years later, who's to say you're not in business.
Most "keeper" pre samples aren't that cheap, for that very reason. Plus you're paying $500-1000/year for the SOT and ITAR too.. it adds up.
Posties are cheap, but you can't keep them.

There are plenty of "funsie" SOTs out there, but they usually don't stick around all that long IME.
 

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I've noticed in recent years that many pre-86 samples are closed to transferables in price; it really depends which guns you have.
I got my 07/SOT last year; I haven't used it much because of the crazy prices/ availability and COVID... Hopefully I'll make a business of it in the next year or 2. How much it costs to get it and use it depends on what you already have and where you live...

My first MG was a MAC-10 in .45. I shot several at rental ranges and decided the MAC 10 was as fun as the others while offering more flexibility than many with swappable uppers and caliber changes. I shot it alot in the first few months I had it but have slowed down since, especially with current ammo prices. I find I shoot it most in spring time.

Since then, I've been more into DD's. I have 4 and am planning out 2 more.
 
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