[Abominog]

1939 BSW MG34 with early top cover (ok not earliest MG34, 1937 is about earliest you can hope to find)

1945 Maget MG42 “last ditch” dual tone.

Six years. Imagine.

 

[nirvana]

What’s really crazy to think about is that they were still making MG34s in 1945. All of that labor, tooling, high quality steel and machine time being used to produce an infinitely more complicated design.

Cool pair. Any details about them? Semi builds? Post samples?

 

[Zohan]

What’s really crazy to think about is that they were still making MG34s in 1945. All of that labor, tooling, high quality steel and machine time being used to produce an infinitely more complicated design.

Cool pair. Any details about them? Semi builds? Post samples?

Mg42s side swapping barrel did not work on armored vehicles

 

[ScottD]

Mg42s side swapping barrel did not work on armored vehicles

Ya know I never thought of that. Learn something new here all the time.

 

[nirvana]

Mg42s side swapping barrel did not work on armored vehicles

And yet most of the guns that they made that late weren’t actually tanker guns, but standard infantry versions.

It’s my understanding that the DOT factory would have had considerable downtime during the retooling process, and that the agencies involved with munitions production felt that it was a waste of time to do a full line conversion. Basically, it was more efficient to make inefficient designs than it was to shut down the line for months in the hope that the new line would be more efficient.

 

[Zohan]

The only difference is that tanker 34 had a heavy barrel shroud. 42 did not work in any armor (including light armor and stationary bunkers ) unless top mounted or wide opening that made gunner vulnerable.

 

[Apexgunparts]

Looks like post WWII that the "DOT" factory (located in Czechoslovakia which was under control of the USSR) made / assembled / refurbished MG34's for the Haganah.
A whole lot of arms and ammunition was moved from Czechoslovakia (with the permission of the USSR), rifles, machineguns, fighter planes etc's, after the west placed an arms embargo on the newly formed country of Israel.

Richard

 

[Abominog]

About the semi MG34 shown:
1. It's a Pirate reweld, and needed more work than a typical reweld. Welds do not blue (IIRC he used 308S)
2. The pre-1938 guns used the machined top cover, as shown. Of course, replacement parts were whatever you could get your hands on.
3. The stock is the 2nd version with metal tips, which are hard to find and expensive. The first version was also bakelite, but prone to breakage.
4. The bipod is a very tough to find early version with "short" reinforcements

Prices for MG34 kits go from a low on postwar "dot" and increase with age; "dot" kits (with exceptions) don't command the price of other assembler's kits. All production was moved to "dot" in 1943, so all 1943 and later MG34 are "dot". Figure too, pre-1943 guns were lost by the hundreds of thousands during Stalingrad and the retreat, so non-"dot" guns/ kits are at a premium. Back to "dot" when the other factories switched to MG42 in 1943, all of the surplus went to "dot"- a HUGE volume of surplus, particularly bipods, top covers, feed trays, barrels. So many "dot" guns all the way to the end were compiled with various manufacturer's leftovers. This is demonstrated well by the 1943 and 1944 shipments to Portugal, which are as they left the factory; the barrels are rarely "dot" but instead from all previous suppliers.

About the MG42 shown:
1. "last ditch" 1945 made by Maget in Berlin; code "SM" (1945) "svq" (Maget)
2. The torched kit was in otherwise new condition. That's because it didn't work, too many flaws. I suspect it was set aside.
3. Obviously BRP semi parts
4. The Russians overran the factory in Berlin on 30 April, however the feeder factory that supplied the receiver was bombed to oblivion by the Americans on 03 April 1945. So these were made in Berlin either NLT early April, or made from receivers that were probably rejects (as, I believe, was this one.)
5. The bipod is also "last ditch" and simplified
6. Note the color of the receiver. This is not in the white, nor is it paint, nor blasted- it's the finish from the factory. Blueing had become unavailable (and AFAIK no MG42 were "parked") so it was finished in what some call "clear phosphate." It is NOT clear, it's just close to the color of bare metal. There's a thread here on that finish, though it has yet to be confirmed what it is.

I gotta get around to doing a photo expose on the 1942 vs 1945 MG42. Most people don't realize how many changes were made, nor that their gun/ kit isn't even close to how it left the factory.

 

[heckinohio]

I mentioned this on previous occasion.........seems to fit here so a repeat.

I was buying Lugers and pocket watches from Doug Smith in Portsmouth Ohio. Went to his house on a regular twice a month buying trip. In his basement rec (???) room were 10 MG-34s lined up in the floor. He pointed one out as a Tanker model. Even back then, when MGs were of no interest to me, I could see the difference from one to the other. He also had one with a different barrel jacket and a MG 42 style trigger. He also pointed that out. This was during the '68 amnesty. He had them all welded into dewatts. He said, "I aint even gonna pretend to trust the gummints amnesty."

PJH

 

[IMBLITZVT]

....
6. Note the color of the receiver. This is not in the white, nor is it paint, nor blasted- it's the finish from the factory. Blueing had become unavailable (and AFAIK no MG42 were "parked") so it was finished in what some call "clear phosphate." It is NOT clear, it's just close to the color of bare metal. There's a thread here on that finish, though it has yet to be confirmed what it is.

I gotta get around to doing a photo expose on the 1942 vs 1945 MG42. Most people don't realize how many changes were made, nor that their gun/ kit isn't even close to how it left the factory.

What finish is on the gun now? This looks like a Dangola kit as we called them. Did you redo the "Clear Phosphate"? Are the rails installed? Looks like a hole were a rivet should be?

Very cool set of guns. If you have any early MG34 belts that were also used with the Maxims that you decide to sell, please let me know. Its interesting how some of these very late Maxim parts overlap with very early MG34 parts! I think in 1936 and maybe some of 1937 they were still doing both. It really is amazing how quickly the Army ramped up during the mid 1930s.

 

[Abominog]

What finish is on the gun now? This looks like a Dangola kit as we called them. Did you redo the "Clear Phosphate"? Are the rails installed? Looks like a hole were a rivet should be?

Very cool set of guns. If you have any early MG34 belts that were also used with the Maxims that you decide to sell, please let me know. Its interesting how some of these very late Maxim parts overlap with very early MG34 parts! I think in 1936 and maybe some of 1937 they were still doing both. It really is amazing how quickly the Army ramped up during the mid 1930s.

Many of the Dangola kits had this finish, which everyone thought was a sandblast. In hindsight, it is not. This one is all original, though I color matched paint for the welds, because the finish had been destroyed.

What's really interesting is that in WW2 production of almost everything ramped up until the end of 1944, despite serious bombings. Part of that was the supply chain- those we call "manufacturers" of MG42 were not, they were simply assemblers (which can be done anywhere with virtually no tools) using multiple suppliers of every given part.

Anecdotally, the horribly bureaucratic Nazi war machine worked spectacularly. Not only in war materiel production. After the end of the war that same bureaucracy kept the food flowing and the population fed; when the Americans realized a bunch of Nazis were still in charge of logistics (and, well, everything else) the Americans took over- and that's when the starvation started.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Many of the Dangola kits had this finish, which everyone thought was a sandblast. In hindsight, it is not. This one is all original, though I color matched paint for the welds, because the finish had been destroyed.

Are you sure about that? I believe mind has bluing under the barrel door where it was not blasted... I think. I will look tonight. My kit was a 1943 kit with the same finish. Seems pretty early for that finish.

Anecdotally, the horribly bureaucratic Nazi war machine worked spectacularly. Not only in war materiel production. After the end of the war that same bureaucracy kept the food flowing and the population fed; when the Americans realized a bunch of Nazis were still in charge of logistics (and, well, everything else) the Americans took over- and that's when the starvation started.

I think Americans were plenty capable of feeding the German post war. I don't think that was a mistake at all. It was the Morgenthau Plan. I also don't think it would have stopped if the Russians threat did not come and they started to get worried that West Germans would decide they wanted to be on the communist side if we kept treating them like that. That's why it was not until 1948 before the Marshall plan came in and May 1945-1948 disappeared from history. Yeah, its surely not a time period they like to talk about very often as it makes one think a little bit about the common narrative. They can excuse Dresden as being part of the war but its a bit harder to justify after the surrender. Patton really should have been in charge, not Ike.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Double tap

 

[Abominog]

Are you sure about that? I believe mind has bluing under the barrel door where it was not blasted... I think. I will look tonight. My kit was a 1943 kit with the same finish. Seems pretty early for that finish.

If yours is 1943 I suspect any silvery surface is just wear or indeed has been stripped. I've never seen one from 1943.

From what I've seen, both blueing and "clear phosphate" were first used in 1944. I track a bunch of elements by S/N but it never occurred to me to track the finish as well...dammit.

I'm sure I've seen 1945 Maget "sm svq" with blued receivers. Keeping in mind these were parts bins guns- who knows what's on the bottom?

There exists an excellent example of a "dual tone clear phosphate gun" that's a USGI bring back; IIRC it's in Folkes book, but also on the internet. There's also a lot of photos of another dual tone svq sm just google "mg42 dual tone".

This finish is rather easily scratched off, so be careful.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

If yours is 1943 I suspect any silvery surface is just wear or indeed has been stripped. I've never seen one from 1943.

From what I've seen, both blueing and "clear phosphate" were first used in 1944. I track a bunch of elements by S/N but it never occurred to me to track the finish as well...dammit.

I'm sure I've seen 1945 Maget "sm svq" with blued receivers. Keeping in mind these were parts bins guns- who knows what's on the bottom?

There exists an excellent example of a "dual tone clear phosphate gun" that's a USGI bring back; IIRC it's in Folkes book, but also on the internet. There's also a lot of photos of another dual tone svq sm just google "mg42 dual tone".

This finish is rather easily scratched off, so be careful.

Mine was from the last batch of Dangola kits. My friend I believe also got a 1943 kit with the same finish. I am pretty sure it has been stripped as they did not open the barrel door when blasting it. I think all the Dangola kits were like this. Thats why I thought it was done post WWII most like by the Yugos. I mean who wants a silver MG? Not ideal camo.

 

[Abominog]

Yes that was definitely blasted. The clear phosphate (I dislike that term) was first used in later 1944…that one is dated 1943.

not only that, it’s DATED 1943, which means it’s early 1943. And as a dated 1943 Maget, that’s a rare piece.

yours does have the postwar stamp.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Yes that was definitely blasted. The clear phosphate (I dislike that term) was first used in later 1944…that one is dated 1943.

not only that, it’s DATED 1943, which means it’s early 1943. And as a dated 1943 Maget, that’s a rare piece.

yours does have the postwar stamp.

I agree with all of that. Now the question is what finish does it have? Its not rusting at all, which means it has something on it! Maybe reworked by the Germans during the war and blasted and Clear Phosphate... or I think more like post WWII rework. If I recall correctly Dan got these from Portugal but maybe I am wrong there. He told me he paid under $1 a pound for them. The good ole days!

Dan asked me what kind of kit I wanted and I told him an early kit. As always he was a very nice guy and hooked me up. My good friend has one similar.

 

[Abominog]

I don't know what those Dangola blasted kits were coated with; I presume just oil. I believe they were prepped for refinish and left to sit. Not all Dangola kits were blasted though I don't know what ratio. You're not in Baton Rouge, so rust tends not to be as much of an issue; I have plenty of in-the-white parts with no rust on them.

The last-ditch "clear phosphate" I've only seen on late 1944 and 1945 MG42s. By then, the Germans did use regular phosphate on guns (eg MP44) so why not on the MG42? I dunno. I would bet if I researched we'd find 1945 guns (other than MG42) that were still being blued; I would suspect it depended on what any given factory had on hand in late 1944, when logistics and supply took a tumble. If you'd mentioned it a few years ago when I started tracking individual details of MG42s, I could have easily added the finish. Do you want a project?

There would have been no reason to use "clear phosphate" postwar, as magphos, zincphos and such were inexpensive and no secret.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I don't know what those Dangola blasted kits were coated with; I presume just oil. I believe they were prepped for refinish and left to sit. Not all Dangola kits were blasted though I don't know what ratio. You're not in Baton Rouge, so rust tends not to be as much of an issue; I have plenty of in-the-white parts with no rust on them.

The last-ditch "clear phosphate" I've only seen on late 1944 and 1945 MG42s. By then, the Germans did use regular phosphate on guns (eg MP44) so why not on the MG42? I dunno. I would bet if I researched we'd find 1945 guns (other than MG42) that were still being blued; I would suspect it depended on what any given factory had on hand in late 1944, when logistics and supply took a tumble. If you'd mentioned it a few years ago when I started tracking individual details of MG42s, I could have easily added the finish. Do you want a project?

There would have been no reason to use "clear phosphate" postwar, as magphos, zincphos and such were inexpensive and no secret.

While I am not in Baton Rouge but Baltimore has its humidity. The Dehumidifier runs pretty much all summer.

I have a project, even two or three or ten... but no I don't need another which I think was your question.

I do have to say from your pictures, I can't see any difference between the finish on your MG42 and the finish on mine.

My guess is we will never fully figure it out at this point. However for me, I agree, it was blued and I should blue it again one day.

Thanks for the info!

 

[FNG3]

I welded up a three cut 1943 cra from Angola Arms. NE Ohio is the rust belt and that receiver sat for years before I got to it. It never rusted. I blasted it and Oxpho'd it.