[Bigbore_]

Lets look at what that says. And pardon my ignorance of how a law letter postie becomes a transferable. Please educate me as I do not know if or how this is possible. I understand "limited to use as a sales sample" and going out of business sales between dealers. How did he get $50,000.00 for two post samples worth $2080.00 each. Sounds like a bribe or laundry job to my dumb ass. Like a new roof or home addition that only cost a few hundred bucks. Oh.... and Happy Holidays to all.

Post samples never become transferable. He used his position as chief to acquire those guns directly from HK. HK doesn't do samples for SOTs, they only deal with LEO direct. He bought them from HK by writing himself a demo letter/request knowing he would then flip them for big bucks because there is no other way for anyone outside of law enforcement to get one.

 

[Crankfire-Systems]

So by the argument made here, would you also argue that all home built 1919A4s, which were constructed exclusively for personal use, can never enter into commerce? Rather, that they must be destroyed when the home builder no longer wants it? I think your argument would apply to that as well. There is nothing specified about time frames in the statute or codes. One can presume that resale was always the intent, but that same argument could be made for a lot of people who home build firearms of all types. How many people have built a gun and then sold it to their buddy six months later? Happens all the time. Should they be prosecuted because they manufactured under false pretenses? Are you consistent on your argument?

I don't have a problem with the actions of the two accused men. I have a problem with rules by unaccountable bureaucrats, which have no Constitutional or statutory basis, being used as they are to persecute (as well as prosecute) people in any position who look to use the rules (they didn't make) to their advantage. The more we focus on some desire to punish a few who pushed the envelope- thereby arguing in support of the tyrannical bureaucracy- the more we undermine any argument or belief that the very nature of these criminal regulations are illegitimate. You can't have it both ways, much as you try. Make your choice.

However, it does still ask the question. Do we REALLY want everyone to be able to walk into a gunshop and plunk down a couple of grand for a full automatic machine gun? With 50 or 100 round drum and silencer included? Given the proliferation of mass shootings over the years, can we imagine how much worse these incidents would be if the average person had access to that kind of firepower with no background checks or safeguards? And while we are at it, does this mean you can pick up a baker's dozen of anti-personnel fragmentation grenades as well? Ask the zealots and see what they think. The hard line "shall not be infringed" crowd needs to come forward and tell us exactly what they think.

Say what you will, but there is a REASON that NO NFA items properly purchased have EVER been used in a crime of any sort.

Your first paragraph sounds like a perfect fit with the Giffords, Bloomberg Moms and the Brady Bunch. Surprised you didn't bring in the "should everyone have a right to own a nuclear weapon" trope as well. Still, it's nice to have their arguments represented on this forum. We are open to all viewpoints here. Well done. 🙄 (Who's the zealot here, by the way?)

As to your last statement, so long as you don't include two documented cases were members of the community who are, by these laws, still allowed to have post May 86 machine guns- as in police officers- you are perfectly right. Hmm, no civilian misuse, but since passage of the Hughes Amendment and the resulting CFRs, there have been two police officers who committed murder with their Department machine guns. One is Roger Waller of the Dayton Ohio PD, the other Edward Lutes of Dover, NJ. So it seems to me that it is provably far more dangerous for government types to have machine guns, in the post May 86 world, than law abiding gun owners. Just going by the evidence.

 

[GBYENKO]

I go back to my original point, just because the ATF say's they committed these offenses does not make it fact. I'm not saying corruption is ok. Just the opposite we have local and state authorities to bring charges in these cases. If there was a crime here it sounds like abuse of power. A local issue. It would be nice to see our federal government work to protect it's citizens not rule them. There is a lot of crime where there is a victim, theft and violence. How many older people loose their savings to phone/electroinic/computer crimes committed by foreigners in other countries?
This administration is going after gun owner period! They are hitting FFL's first because they can. Whatever these guy's are accused of it's not selling illegal guns to gang bangers and criminals. It's not selling illegal machine guns illegally. It's not a crime with a victim.

 

[FNG3]

Post samples never become transferable. He used his position as chief to acquire those guns directly from HK. HK doesn't do samples for SOTs, they only deal with LEO direct. He bought them from HK by writing himself a demo letter/request knowing he would then flip them for big bucks because there is no other way for anyone outside of law enforcement to get one.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

...Do we REALLY want everyone to be able to walk into a gunshop and plunk down a couple of grand for a full automatic machine gun? ....

Yup, captured by the liberal mentality around you. I want them to be able to buy a MG for less than a couple grand. I think $350 M16s would be great. If we had real justice and a good government, we would not have these issues and we could trust our fellow citizens like we did 100 years ago when you could buy a Tommy gun from the hardware store.

 

[cpu77]

Bust a guy for this but allow the crooked politicians to continue insider trading.... among many other despicable acts. That actual harm others.

 

[Cal.BAR]

Yup, captured by the liberal mentality around you. I want them to be able to buy a MG for less than a couple grand. I think $350 M16s would be great. If we had real justice and a good government, we would not have these issues and we could trust our fellow citizens like we did 100 years ago when you could buy a Tommy gun from the hardware store.

Hope you are trolling.... but sadly resigned to the fact that you might be serious.

 

[Cal.BAR]

Yes.

There is no shortage of gang bangers shooting each other up with unregistered "glock switches". Technology has killed gun control and made full auto very easy for criminals to get. Prohibiting the honest folks from accessing machine guns, isn't going to stop the criminals from using them.

Really, NO shortage. I have counted a HANDFULL at best. (at least in the numerous news sources I have tried). AGAIN, NO legally bought NFA items have EVER been used in a crime. But if what you are saying were to be true, we all know that a FA glock pistol is uncontrollable and gererally useless as a true tactical weapon. But you would use that logic to say that giving THOSE SAME CRIMINALS free access to actual, FA weapons of all sorts, calibers and mag capacities is actually BETTER? How exactly is that better? I really think you need to think harder about this subject.

 

[M2JB]

Bust a guy for this but allow the crooked politicians to continue insider trading.... among many other despicable acts. That actual harm others.

Or all those people that visited Epstein's island being protected by our so-called "justice" system right now.

 

[theduke]

Whats the beef?
Are you mad that some dude......legally or not was able to make a profit? This is/was America.

If what He did ..all be it sketchy..was illegal.......pay the piper.

If its fine .....you still mad cause you didn't get do it?

I'm just getting the popcorn ready to cook...no fks given.

Not my war but curious on why condem Him Yet.......ITPG

 

[Outdoordave]

This is an enlightening read - will be following it.

 

[OLDIRONSIGHT]

Whats the beef?
Are you mad that some dude......legally or not was able to make a profit? This is/was America.

If what He did ..all be it sketchy..was illegal.......pay the piper.

If its fine .....you still mad cause you didn't get do it?

I'm just getting the popcorn ready to cook...no fks given.

Not my war but curious on why condem Him Yet.......ITPG

 

[Abominog]

There are indeed a couple of facets to this case.

Most argued is whether a law was broken, and while that remains a good question, some continue to argue that one shouldn't break laws because well boo hoo.

2A (which is listed second for a reason) applies to individuals. It says "shall not be infringed." SCOTUS has confirmed 2A applies to individuals- not necessarily commercial or government entities.

So while an individual has the right (on paper) to do what was done, a government entity does not automatically. The reality here though is government entities typically are given free reign to do what they want...in this case, the chief, in his official capacity, broke the law according to the government. In a perfect world respectful of the Constitution, an individual, acting in that capacity "shall not be infringed." Anyone acting in a government capacity is not covered by 2A, so the law as written is the law (though in many cases organizations have been recognized as equivalent to "individuals" so this would require some in-depth research.)

Of course, there is the Constitution, and there is reality. The big take-away to the overturn of Roe Wade is often missed: SCOTUS opined (finally) that they don't look at non-enumerated rights; on the one hand, this IS what SCOTUS should be working on, because enumerated rights are pretty clear. On the other hand, when we repeatedly see SCOTUS split on even enumerated rights, it's pretty clear that they can't handle non-enumerated rights. And, with historical decisions rarely being accepted for review, much less overturned, Scalia's stating that FA aren't covered by 2A, though patently wrong, is now in stone.

The one good take-away of Bruin (at least on paper) is that enumerated rights are not subject to interest balancing. Well, duh, but at least it finally was said. That of course didn't stop NYS from retaliating and passing laws that are obviously and intentionally in violation of Bruin, a big FU to SCOTUS. "Marshall made his decision, now let him enforce it"...nothing new here.

The fact of the matter is that it's not "The People vs." or "The people have decided" it's men. As I have heard, and repeated to my kids, "you can be right, or you can be happy." Chose wisely.

 

[Hershmeister]

I more wholeheartedly agree with you! (sadly some are so zealous, they cannot see beyond their own issues).

However, it does still ask the question. Do we REALLY want everyone to be able to walk into a gunshop and plunk down a couple of grand for a full automatic machine gun? With 50 or 100 round drum and silencer included? Given the proliferation of mass shootings over the years, can we imagine how much worse these incidents would be if the average person had access to that kind of firepower with no background checks or safeguards? And while we are at it, does this mean you can pick up a baker's dozen of anti-personnel fragmentation grenades as well? Ask the zealots and see what they think. The hard line "shall not be infringed" crowd needs to come forward and tell us exactly what they think.

Say what you will, but there is a REASON that NO NFA items properly purchased have EVER been used in a crime of any sort.

Answer is yes

And No Registered NFA items have been used in a crime. Yet plenty of glock happy switches have been on the street and used by criminals.

Proving that you point is moot. If criminals wish to use machine guns they will and do


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FNG3]

NIB HK MP7-A1 $10,000.00

HECKLER AND KOCH MP7-A1 NEW IN BOX | Global Gun Sales

HECKLER AND KOCH MP7-A1 NEW IN BOX, fresh in the box Machine gun Heckler & Koch MP7-A1 post sample in 4.6x30. One 20-round magazine and a new sling are incl

www.globalgunsales.com

 

[GBYENKO]

NIB HK MP7-A1 $10,000.00

HECKLER AND KOCH MP7-A1 NEW IN BOX | Global Gun Sales

HECKLER AND KOCH MP7-A1 NEW IN BOX, fresh in the box Machine gun Heckler & Koch MP7-A1 post sample in 4.6x30. One 20-round magazine and a new sling are incl

www.globalgunsales.com

That is one of the many online scam sites, just a rip off to steal your money.

Global gun sales. B.S. site?

Found a good deal on this site. Almost too good. https://www.globalgunsales.com/armory This site legit? I see some reviews say they are frauds. F on the BBB so maybe this is a foolish question?

www.theakforum.net

 

[FNG3]

Three strikes. I'm out

 

[GBYENKO]

Three strikes. I'm out

You really have to be careful online, things appear legit. The big tell "usually" is payment by electronic funds only.

 

[RENCORP]

Solution, lose the NFA, and the BATF. Problem solved, as they never should have existed in the first place.

As for the guy making money, well, O.A.Cortez started off making Senator wages 3 years ago - pre tax, under 200k per year - but, the Senator is currently sporting a net worth in 2022 of over 19 million - even by her standards, the math doesn't add up. So, who is the bigger criminal, and who needs to be thrown in jail first ?

 

[Rory]

It’s AO Cortez and the net worth strewn about is fictitious.

but I’m all for a full forensic accounting of all Congress and presidents finances. Weed out the crooks