[lmg15nA]

Wow I will never get tired of seeing your brass Maxim Matt. The jacket front plate looks like Liquid Metal as does your brass Sokolov mount. Very striking build.

Yes, I agree. The old Imperial stuff exudes quality. Some of the Imperial fire control equipment is also amazing. They often used a beautiful copperplate Cyrillic script on it that is a work of art in itself.

 

[lmg15nA]

Some more pictures to help.

I have a copper wrapped barrel. I wonder it it went with that booster.

View attachment 152268

you can see, just a brass plug on the bottom and I might have spares if you need one.

View attachment 152269

I wished mine matched but I did pick a nice Imperial cover.

View attachment 152270

I bet whoever painted your gun liked the brass. They tapes it off while painting it. I would think none of the paint is original and as long as it's now an indoor gun, I would strip all the paint.

View attachment 152271

Yes, I am coming down on the side of the paint being post WW1. I have a few more enquiries to make - just to make sure. I just don't want to do anything I can't undo quite yet.

As for the condition of the metal under the paint, most vertical surfaces look smooth, although the condition of the bluing is unknown. The main rust under the paint is on horizontal surfaces where dust and moisture have gathered.

 

[lmg15nA]

The brass valve that was screwed into the front water jacket drain hole was a chunky brass ball cock with a 2 inch long brass pipe coming out at 90 degrees. It was removed some time in the last 30 years. I will follow up with the previous owners to see if they still have it.

 

[lmg15nA]

Yes, I am coming down on the side of the paint being post WW1. I have a few more enquiries to make - just to make sure. I just don't want to do anything I can't undo quite yet.

As for the condition of the metal under the paint, most vertical surfaces look smooth, although the condition of the bluing is unknown. The main rust under the paint is on horizontal surfaces where dust and moisture have gathered.

Also, many thanks for the offer of a spare plug - I think I'll take you up on that. The brass cock that was originally screwed into the hole looks a lot like an antique gas fitting, so if I can recover it, I'll post some photos.

 

[Francophilo1886]

Some more pictures to help.

I have a copper wrapped barrel. I wonder it it went with that booster.

View attachment 152268

you can see, just a brass plug on the bottom and I might have spares if you need one.

View attachment 152269

I wished mine matched but I did pick a nice Imperial cover.

View attachment 152270

I bet whoever painted your gun liked the brass. They tapes it off while painting it. I would think none of the paint is original and as long as it's now an indoor gun, I would strip all the paint.

View attachment 152271

is the barrel... painted?

 

[lmg15nA]

is the barrel... painted?

The barrel wasn't painted, but it did not look copper plated either. External condition was not brilliant and it looks like it has some pitting - possibly from some dissimilar meals corrosion.Then again, I will have to have another look given IMBLITZVT's impressive example.

The barrel is original and serial numbered for this gun. Looks like it was barrel 1.

I am assuming that the extensive use of brass and copper was to enhance heat transfer?

I will post some more photos tonight.

 

[lmg15nA]

Some more photos.

These are the best I have of the missing drain valve from some very old photos.

left side

right side

Grips

Condenser port bung. This shows the paint has been applied well after the rubber was gone. It was stuck in the right- hand shield pin hole.

 

[lmg15nA]

The barrel was not copper plated.

The chamber is quite clean and looks rougher in the photo than it appears to the eye.

A better photo of the lock markings

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Wow I will never get tired of seeing your brass Maxim Matt. The jacket front plate looks like Liquid Metal as does your brass Sokolov mount. Very striking build.

Thanks, it was a lot of work to get it like that.

The operating hypothesis is that it came into Australian possession sometime in December 1918, when four Australian destroyers were deployed into the Black Sea with the Royal Navy after the surrender of Turkey. This was to enquire as to the state of the White Russian forces around Crimea and Mariupol.

The Russian M1910s that the ANZACs came up against on the Western Front would have been the German 8mm conversions. I would think it likely that some were of these captured in the last 100 days of WW1 but I have not seen one yet. The AEF was deployed in the same sectors as the Australians, so I wonder if any captured 8mm M1910s made it back to the US?

There is a going theory that the brass jacket like you have was for naval use. Same with my copper covered barrel. However there is really no proof as of yet that I have seen.

Yes, I agree. The old Imperial stuff exudes quality. Some of the Imperial fire control equipment is also amazing. They often used a beautiful copperplate Cyrillic script on it that is a work of art in itself.

Actually lots of the brass stuff is early Soviet era. The Brass Sokolov mounts always seem to be Soviet. I think the brass Trunnion and Endcaps most often are too. Brass is heavy and not as strong. So its no ideal for military use.

Yes, I am coming down on the side of the paint being post WW1. I have a few more enquiries to make - just to make sure. I just don't want to do anything I can't undo quite yet.

As for the condition of the metal under the paint, most vertical surfaces look smooth, although the condition of the bluing is unknown. The main rust under the paint is on horizontal surfaces where dust and moisture have gathered.

I am nearly sure the paint is post WWI applied. Its just on areas they would not have painted or the paint would have come off if they did. For example there is paint behind the recoil plates where it certainly would come off after a few shots. You are correct, no need to rush its removal. That said if you have pits under the paint... that means pitting before paint which means for sure its not military paint.

The brass valve that was screwed into the front water jacket drain hole was a chunky brass ball cock with a 2 inch long brass pipe coming out at 90 degrees. It was removed some time in the last 30 years. I will follow up with the previous owners to see if they still have it.

Yeah, I don't know what this is about. More pictures please.

Also, many thanks for the offer of a spare plug - I think I'll take you up on that. The brass cock that was originally screwed into the hole looks a lot like an antique gas fitting, so if I can recover it, I'll post some photos.

Sorry those pictures are so small its hard to see whats going on. Can you try again on those pictures? Let me take a look for the plug.

is the barrel... painted?

You replied to my message... no my barrel is not painted.

The barrel wasn't painted, but it did not look copper plated either. External condition was not brilliant and it looks like it has some pitting - possibly from some dissimilar meals corrosion.Then again, I will have to have another look given IMBLITZVT's impressive example.

The barrel is original and serial numbered for this gun. Looks like it was barrel 1.

I am assuming that the extensive use of brass and copper was to enhance heat transfer?

I will post some more photos tonight.

The water would take care of the heat. The brass and copper seem to be more around corrosion resistance or making it easier to manufacture. Thats awesome the barrel matches and is #1. Please more photos of the bottom plug/value area.

 

[L999here]

Just a note...APEX had 1910 Maxim partial dummy's with full brass water jacket,original LSP,bottom plate and a dummy RSP. I might have gotten the last one....

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Just a note...APEX had 1910 Maxim partial dummy's with full brass water jacket,original LSP,bottom plate and a dummy RSP. I might have gotten the last one....

Nothing again Apex but those brass jackets were not original, just display guns. I have nothing again making display guns. IMA did brass Fusee Covers too.

That said, I have decided to stick to original parts only for mine. Nothing to new or plated. All the brass on my gun is original.

 

[Francophilo1886]

Thanks, it was a lot of work to get it like that.



There is a going theory that the brass jacket like you have was for naval use. Same with my copper covered barrel. However there is really no proof as of yet that I have seen.



Actually lots of the brass stuff is early Soviet era. The Brass Sokolov mounts always seem to be Soviet. I think the brass Trunnion and Endcaps most often are too. Brass is heavy and not as strong. So its no ideal for military use.



I am nearly sure the paint is post WWI applied. Its just on areas they would not have painted or the paint would have come off if they did. For example there is paint behind the recoil plates where it certainly would come off after a few shots. You are correct, no need to rush its removal. That said if you have pits under the paint... that means pitting before paint which means for sure its not military paint.



Yeah, I don't know what this is about. More pictures please.



Sorry those pictures are so small its hard to see whats going on. Can you try again on those pictures? Let me take a look for the plug.



You replied to my message... no my barrel is not painted.



The water would take care of the heat. The brass and copper seem to be more around corrosion resistance or making it easier to manufacture. Thats awesome the barrel matches and is #1. Please more photos of the bottom plug/value area.

my mistake i meant to ask is the water jacket painted? the soviets seemed to have a habit of painting the metal of pieces manufactured during the interwar period, id assume to distinguish them between surplus and newly manufactured under a license to maintain the hodge podge of random equipment acquired during ww1

 

[IMBLITZVT]

my mistake i meant to ask is the water jacket painted? the soviets seemed to have a habit of painting the metal of pieces manufactured during the interwar period, id assume to distinguish them between surplus and newly manufactured under a license to maintain the hodge podge of random equipment acquired during ww1

Yes the jacket was painted. However my jacket is Finnish captured and reworked into one of their conversions. Its even re-serial numbered. I can see the old Russian number somewhat below. in the trunnion. The Russian and Finns would have painted the entire jacket including the brass endcaps and trunnion.

 

[lmg15nA]

Thanks, it was a lot of work to get it like that.



There is a going theory that the brass jacket like you have was for naval use. Same with my copper covered barrel. However there is really no proof as of yet that I have seen.



Actually lots of the brass stuff is early Soviet era. The Brass Sokolov mounts always seem to be Soviet. I think the brass Trunnion and Endcaps most often are too. Brass is heavy and not as strong. So its no ideal for military use.



I am nearly sure the paint is post WWI applied. Its just on areas they would not have painted or the paint would have come off if they did. For example there is paint behind the recoil plates where it certainly would come off after a few shots. You are correct, no need to rush its removal. That said if you have pits under the paint... that means pitting before paint which means for sure its not military paint.



Yeah, I don't know what this is about. More pictures please.



Sorry those pictures are so small its hard to see whats going on. Can you try again on those pictures? Let me take a look for the plug.



You replied to my message... no my barrel is not painted.



The water would take care of the heat. The brass and copper seem to be more around corrosion resistance or making it easier to manufacture. Thats awesome the barrel matches and is #1. Please more photos of the bottom plug/value area.

Yes, I have the feelers out to recover the drain cock in the old photos. 200ASA grain and taken at a distance have not helped photo quality. It may well have been just an old gas fitting shoved in there by friction only, but on the other hand, if it was screwed in, there may have been a lot of effort to make the correct thread if the drain plug thread is not a standard type.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Yes, I have the feelers out to recover the drain cock in the old photos. 200ASA grain and taken at a distance have not helped photo quality. It may well have been just an old gas fitting shoved in there by friction only, but on the other hand, if it was screwed in, there may have been a lot of effort to make the correct thread if the drain plug thread is not a standard type.

Or by some odd chance, maybe it was something original that we have not seen before... Seems like a lot of effort for someone to fake without cause unless it was to keep the bees out when outside on display.

Until then, can you take a picture of what is there now? Are they threads still there and good?

 

[lmg15nA]

Or by some odd chance, maybe it was something original that we have not seen before... Seems like a lot of effort for someone to fake without cause unless it was to keep the bees out when outside on display.

Until then, can you take a picture of what is there now? Are they threads still there and good?

I was thinking that too. I thought I had posted this photo, but looks like I missed it...

I can take a better shot of the drain threads, but the look like they are reasonably clean and well defined. I have not cleaned them out, so looks like whatever was in there was screwed in rather than jammed in. Anyway, if the drain cock appears, we will have a much better idea what is going on.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Yeah, that little hole on the bottom looks correct. Ok.

 

[R.S.Mtn.]

Thank you for taking more pictures. I wonder how much of that is rust vs cosmoline. Would the Australians use cosmoline on their parts? I thought that was mainly export applied.
The knurled grip caps show this gun had legit heavy wear which has me question how could the jacket be so nice. Not saying it’s phoney just like it had to have been in wrap or cover to have made it that good while in carry. From the picture I’ve seen the MG crews would have treated their gun like their favorite daughter.

 

[lmg15nA]

Mainly just congealed grease or more likely oil on the M1910 I think. If the gun was in a state or preservation, there would be thick grease all through it. When I first popped the top cover on it about 25 years ago it was dry and seized. All it needed was a bit of WD40to soak in for it to cycle by hand.

When I cleaned the barrel out for the first time in maybe 105 years, the bore looked like a coal mine, but all of the dust and crud came out with a stiff bore brush and a gauze. Cosmoline tends to be on small arms in long term warehousing over here, so guns exported straight from war stock will have it.

Regarding the knurled caps, I see what you mean. Looking at blow-ups of the photos, I am wondering how much of this is wear or due to paint filling the low spots. Once the paint is removed, we may have a better idea of the overall external condition.

 

[lmg15nA]

Good news - I managed to locate the water jacket drain valve with a previous owner. I pick it up Monday from way across town. I'm keen to see if it has any markings and mull over its authenticity. I will be able to measure the thread and see if it is bespoke to the gun or a standard pipe thread.