The National Electrical Code book(NEC) states as follows: 210.8(A)(10) – All 125V, 15a and 20a receptacles installed in “Laundry Areas” shall have GFCI protection. It doesn't specify a washing machine specifically but states laundry areas. I would use a regular receptacle on the washer and place a ground fault breaker in the panel box as they do not fail as often as the GFCI plugs. Hope this helps.

 

It wouldn't be such a big deal but we had throw out a couple hundred dollars worth of meat! I guess if I were to just replace the GFI out every couple years it probably wouldn't do this,but I don't think about that until this kind of thing happens!

 

GFIs degrade over time. And they can trip for “little reason.”

 

It might be worth your effort to place the freezer on a separate circuit. When I can I try to place large important appliances on designated circuit. Now that may be more work than you want to do, depending on situation. Is there conduit with enough room for additional wire? Is there possibility of rearranging some wiring? GFCI is a good idea for anything around water. As someone already stated you can use GFCI circuit breaker at the box, as may or may not be the case in prefab. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

I agree with placing the freezer on a separate circuit if possible. Another option if you want to stay with your current configuration is a GFCI Receptacle with an audible alert so that if the freezer looses power the receptacle makes a really loud alert noise to let you know that receptacle has lost power. I purchased one for my freezer several years ago when i encountered a problem similar to yours. The one i bought was made by Legend, item #1597TRAW. It is a GFI recep but simply has an audible alert if there is a power loss.

 

I have to run up to the hardware store tomorrow,I'll see what they have available in the way of a GFI breaker,the shed is about 15 feet from the house and I really don't want to try stuffing an extra wire through that much conduit!
I should have thought about that GFI outlet,my mother in law was running a space heater off of one and it killed it last winter,I guess that freezer was just to much and when it tried to restart after the black out it took it out.
Thanks for the suggestions.

 

Years ago...NO

That was the best plug in in the house.

Today probly yes because there is water in there.


In my bizz.,.I need the best avl. plug in that has NO GFI.

Why....Because they usually toss a cord under the Garage door for me.

I tell everyone...Plug in to an outlet with NO GFI..& also one that has No connection to your FREEZER.

Been there did that.

Todays New homes Suck...Some older ones are better than others.

Its blind mans bluff when No One is Home.

Retirement will be a blessing and I'm right there........

 

After looking at today I decided I was going to run another outlet on the next stud over,that way I could just use a standard outlet for the freezer and keep the GFI for the washer,I picked up a new one this afternoon,paid $27 for a 20 amp outlet at my only hardware store! Hopefully it will last a lot longer without the freezer running on it!

 

Just curious, are you planning on putting the outlet before the GFCI, or After? After would still be on the GFCI. Before would not provide the same protection. Last I knew you didn't want to add another circuit/ separate feed from breaker box. Worst case scenario(And I will probably catch Hell for this). You could disconnect your feed, and pull it back with a string attached, and pull it back in with a single strand. A neutral and ground could be shared. As long as everything is contained in conduit or junction box, I believe you would be ok. Maybe run 12/3 for 20amp, or 14/3 for 15 amp from breaker box to a junction box where your conduit starts. Then add a single strand to conduit. It wouldn't be much harder to to change out wire inside conduit. I believe you said it was only 15' away.

 

I had planned on tapping into the power in front of the GFI plug so that the freezer would be separate from the washer. I was looking at the instruction that came with the new outlet and that is the way they show wiring,if I need to I can run a separate wire from where it enters the laundry shed,it's a short run so I have several options.

 

Dont do what Indian said period! Don’t do what you are doing now. Call an electrician and ask him to see his state or local justictional license, just in case they send an unlicensed apprentice. Then let him check your freezer incase the compressor is going bad or has lost its ground. Same for your washer. There is no such thing as a nuisance trip, only a bad circuit condition. Motor loads have given GFI Recepts bad reps when sensing inrush current. True GFI Recepts do go bad mostly from Recepts that get plugged a lot. There is too much misunderstanding with grounding and fault condition and GFIR verse GFI breakers. GFI breakers wont save your life as they have a much higher current opening rating and are mostly intented to give some circuit protection to ground fault conditions to say outside low voltage lighting mounted transformer. I’m not even sure how they are legal devices as they truly don’t give human level protection when you are closing the path to a short.
Nowing going back to your shed, when your dad built the place the code had minimal requirements. You said you changed it long ago and that it when you reran power and location? Was it inspected then? I’m guessing not be cause you would not have been able to add a freezer to the single required laundry appliance circuit load. Gas verse electric and combo appliances. Your freezer should have received a dedicated circuit and in a wet area should have a GFIR. Back in the day if you mounted the receptical behind the washer so there was no access to the plug you could use a regular duplex receptical. That has long incrementally changed with the requirment of wet areas all need GFI protection now and that means you want to have a GFIR in the front of any circuit and the rest of the down line circuit attached to the load side of the GFIR including switches for lighting on the general lighting circuit. So most of your guys are right there about any wet or outside areas, not going into further details.
Now the dryer in the same wet shed area. Assuming you have an electric dryer 240V with an old three prong 30amp recept fed out a non fused disconnect box which is feed by a 30 amp breaker out your panel. Well now you are required to have GFIC protection which means you have to have a four wire feeder. The old days you were allowed to install a new four wire dryer by using a three wire cord into your existing three wire dryer receptical only if you internally bond the neutral dryer connection point to the ground connection point. That no longer can be allowed because the circuit needs to have GFI Circuit protection as well. Since I haven’t done any residential work in almost thirty years I’m hesitant to quote the newer NEC code Articles which state the requirements you have to work within to meet. So I’m not the sharpest knife skinning romex and would have to defer the latest practices to your local licensed electrician practicing residential work as your local adopted codes will supersede the NEC requirements. Honestly, unless you are under advice from a local family electrician what to do, I wouldn’t take any DIY advice. If you or your family isn’t worth having a sound structure to live in, then by all means take risk. Electrical work is not worth getting wrong to save a little money. Most DYI home projects I see giving advice on TV is clueless and they always protect their ass by saying you should call your local licensed electrician. You want James the carpenter to offer to rebuild your transmission? Make the call is my advice and go with the most expensive guy. He is going to have to pull some new circuits. Sorry if I’ve stepped on any toes.

 

Dont do what Indian said period! Don’t do what you are doing now. Call an electrician and ask him to see his state or local justictional license, just in case they send an unlicensed apprentice. Then let him check your freezer incase the compressor is going bad or has lost its ground. Same for your washer. There is no such thing as a nuisance trip, only a bad circuit condition. Motor loads have given GFI Recepts bad reps when sensing inrush current. True GFI Recepts do go bad mostly from Recepts that get plugged a lot. There is too much misunderstanding with grounding and fault condition and GFIR verse GFI breakers. GFI breakers wont save your life as they have a much higher current opening rating and are mostly intented to give some circuit protection to ground fault conditions to say outside low voltage lighting mounted transformer. I’m not even sure how they are legal devices as they truly don’t give human level protection when you are closing the path to a short.
Nowing going back to your shed, when your dad built the place the code had minimal requirements. You said you changed it long ago and that it when you reran power and location? Was it inspected then? I’m guessing not be cause you would not have been able to add a freezer to the single required laundry appliance circuit load. Gas verse electric and combo appliances. Your freezer should have received a dedicated circuit and in a wet area should have a GFIR. Back in the day if you mounted the receptical behind the washer so there was no access to the plug you could use a regular duplex receptical. That has long incrementally changed with the requirment of wet areas all need GFI protection now and that means you want to have a GFIR in the front of any circuit and the rest of the down line circuit attached to the load side of the GFIR including switches for lighting on the general lighting circuit. So most of your guys are right there about any wet or outside areas, not going into further details.
Now the dryer in the same wet shed area. Assuming you have an electric dryer 240V with an old three prong 30amp recept fed out a non fused disconnect box which is feed by a 30 amp breaker out your panel. Well now you are required to have GFIC protection which means you have to have a four wire feeder. The old days you were allowed to install a new four wire dryer by using a three wire cord into your existing three wire dryer receptical only if you internally bond the neutral dryer connection point to the ground connection point. That no longer can be allowed because the circuit needs to have GFI Circuit protection as well. Since I haven’t done any residential work in almost thirty years I’m hesitant to quote the newer NEC code Articles which state the requirements you have to work within to meet. So I’m not the sharpest knife skinning romex and would have to defer the latest practices to your local licensed electrician practicing residential work as your local adopted codes will supersede the NEC requirements. Honestly, unless you are under advice from a local family electrician what to do, I wouldn’t take any DIY advice. If you or your family isn’t worth having a sound structure to live in, then by all means take risk. Electrical work is not worth getting wrong to save a little money. Most DYI home projects I see giving advice on TV is clueless and they always protect their ass by saying you should call your local licensed electrician. You want James the carpenter to offer to rebuild your transmission? Make the call is my advice and go with the most expensive guy. He is going to have to pull some new circuits. Sorry if I’ve stepped on any toes.

You have a lot of valid points, and I respect your wisdom. I will say I have installed my own service and panel. I have done much rewiring. I have had no problem following code. And if you are an electrician by trade you should know that if everything contained inside conduit from junction box to junction box barring wrong size conductor should be ok. Now OP left some details to be desired, but I was trying to guide him in the proper direction. You should know there are many options to add a circuit to a system. Yes you can share a neutral and ground that's what many circuits do(And I added for anyone that has this type, for safety make sure you open/ turn off any breakers when working on one like this.), If not enough room in the panel you can add "skinny breakers" 2 breakers in the space of 1. As I said "Run 12/3 for 20 amp and 14/3 for 15amp to junction box for conduit." Please tell me where splitting the washer and freezer on separate circuits would be bad? If the OP knew what size conduit and wire, I could give more directions. In case you haven't noticed, the OP is doing what they want. Yes, you are right to tell them to contact an Electrician, but my advice is better than the direction they were heading. The DIY rarely calls the professional after they make up their mind. I could easily say don't play with electricity or guns, they aren't safe, but look where we are. I don't need help being a fool in everything. I can seem a fool asking silly questions about guns here. Thanks and good luck trying to sway this one from doing "what they're going to do".

 

Luckily the dryer is gas so that doesn't effect things much,as for the rest of it I have a good friend that is a licensed electrician and the local building inspector,he's coming down sometime this week to check things out and line me out on on getting things set up. I'll probably just run the washer and the freezer off of the same 20 amp GFI outlet,and remember to change it a little more often.

 

If I am going to do something I try to find out as much as I can before I do so that it is done as safely as possible, I have done wiring before,I wired my 4 bedroom 2 story addition and a barn and several additions to my man cave over the years,and I haven't had a single problem in over 20 years, the GFI outlet in this situation was well over 15 years old,and I have no idea what amperage it was rated for,it didn't just get kicked in this situation,it got knocked out completely and wouldn't reset.
I plan on following the instruction that came with the new GFI outlet,I figure they should know what they are talking about!

 

So I pulled out a 1999 code book and the articles number are probably still the same numbers but could have been changed including wording.
In the old 1919 NEC Article 210 is some of the basic rules for Branch Circuits requirements. Additionally 110 Rules for electrical installation and also 300 for wiring methods and 310 for conductor ampacity will apply.
210-11 (c) (2) Laundry Branch circuits. extract- at least one 20 amp branch circuit shall be provided to supply the laundry receptacle outlet, this circuit shall have no other outlets.
220-4(a) motor operated and combination loads-extract for circuits supplying loads consisting of motor operated utilization equipment fastened in place and that has a motor larger than 1/8 hp in combination with other loads, the total computed lad for that circuit shall be base on 125% of the largest motor load plus the sum of the other loads.
210-23 (a)Permissible loads- 15 and 20 Amp Branch circuits a shall be permitted to supply lighting units or other utilization equipment or a combination of both. The rating of any one cord and plug connected utilitization equipment shall not exceed 80% of the branch circuit ampere rating. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than lighting fixtures; shall not exceed 50% of the Branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units cord and plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both are also supplied.
210-21 (B) Recepticles-(2) where connected to a branch circuite supplying two or more receptical Ed or outlets, a receptical shall not supply a total cord and plug connected load in excess of the maximum specified in the following - 210-21(b)(2) Maximum Cord and plug connected load to receptacle chart extract 12 amps on a 15 circuit rating and 16 amps on a 20 amp circuite rating.
210-19 Branch circuit ratings- Conductors- Minimum ampacity and size (a)General-Branch circuits conductors shall have an ampacity not less than the maximum load to be served. Where a branch circuit supplies continuous loads or and combination of continuous and noncontinuous loads, the minimum branch circuit conductor size, before any correction factors, shall have an allowable ampicity equal to or greater than the non continuous load plus 125% of the continuous load.

So what you are looking at is a connected shed with a Freezer a plug in heater washer and gas dryer.
First you must have at least one dedicated 20 amp laundry appliance circuit. Can we plug the dryer and the washer into that GFIR Duplex receptical? Maybe it depends on the connected ampacity ,for that you use the nameplate rating of the appliances. Connected can’t be more than 16 amps of calculation. So you take the highest appliance at 125% and add the other appliance amps and must be below 16 amps. Additionally you can’t tap that circuit and run more receptacles.
My washer is 12 amps and my gas dryer nameplate is 6 amps and this would exceed the circuit ampacity for the laundry appliance circuit. So the Washer the bigger load gets the 20 amp dedicated appliance circuit. I had to run another branch circuit for the dryer but it can have other receptacles on that circuit as long as the combination motor connected load is either 125% of the largest name plate plus the other loads does not exceed 210-21(b)(2) above.
Let’s see I have 20 amp circuit for that with a 6 amp nameplate dryer fixed motor appliance calculated as a a continuous load must rate at 125% so that is 7.5 amps; I have 8 amps left to work with.
I have a 6.5 amp fridge also on that branch circuit so I’m good. 1.5-2 amps left for good head room.
But you also have a small heater with a nameplate of 1600 watts very common size for small heaters.
Calulate the watts over to amps 1600/120volts=13.5 amps
For a 1200 watt heater that’s 10 amps. For a 1000 watt heater that’s 8.5 amps.
That heater is going to need a 20 amp circuit if its 1600 watts. Or a dedicated 15 amp receptical for 1200 watts at the least. My iron is 1500 watts if I plugged it in with the dryer circuit with the dryer off but with the fridge it could trip the circuit. So I use it only when the washer isn’t running.
Just some things to frame up when your electrician comes over to calulate and best divide your loads and circuits. I’d say one 20 amp required laundry appliance circuit, one 20 amp branch circuit for the dryer and freezer; and one more circuit for the heater and possible iron If you don’t run them at the same time.
Edit- I knew this was going to get me in deep ****. Well sorry Indian if I have unintentionally offended anyone. I know every one means well as is coming in to help a brother out. I wanted to keep it as simple as possible and what is safe. I didn’t even get into Article 220-3(c)(1) Nor am I going to quote articles old on newer circuit protection, I’l leave that to the local electrician coming hopefully. It is my duty as a license carrying electrician to protect persons and property. I don’t see why you would want to run conduit to an attached shed but if you did then other rules would also apply which I am highly versed on. Additionaly you can’t take a ground and make it a neutral or the other way or bond the two together to eliminate one or the other. Show me the article that says you can. OKDouble Edit—as I read it now what you are trying to explain is the use of a ‘Multi wire’ circuit which shares the neutral and ground between two hot circuits and it would be easy to pull another hot wire into a conduit to change it to a multi wire branch circuit. Use of muli-wire branch circuits are covered in Article 210-4 Yes that is permissible but the over current protection “breaker” must open both circuits simultaneously so use of a two pole breaker would need to be used . But the having to be a GFI protected circuit in a wet area is going to be a problem on a muli-wire circuit as it wont work using GFI breakers. You will have to use GFIR recepticals. Use of multi-wire circuits is not allowed on the laundry appliance circuit. I wont get into a battle with anyone over application of the NEC rules and methods without knowing more, I’m not there. Let me know what your inspector thinks about what I said.

 

So I pulled out a 1999 code book and the articles number are probably still the same numbers but could have been changed including wording.
In the old 1919 NEC Article 210 is some of the basic rules for Branch Circuits requirements. Additionally 110 Rules for electrical installation and also 300 for wiring methods and 310 for conductor ampacity will apply.
210-11 (c) (2) Laundry Branch circuits. extract- at least one 20 amp branch circuit shall be provided to supply the laundry receptacle outlet, this circuit shall have no other outlets.
220-4(a) motor operated and combination loads-extract for circuits supplying loads consisting of motor operated utilization equipment fastened in place and that has a motor larger than 1/8 hp in combination with other loads, the total computed lad for that circuit shall be base on 125% of the largest motor load plus the sum of the other loads.
210-23 (a)Permissible loads- 15 and 20 Amp Branch circuits a shall be permitted to supply lighting units or other utilization equipment or a combination of both. The rating of any one cord and plug connected utilitization equipment shall not exceed 80% of the branch circuit ampere rating. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than lighting fixtures; shall not exceed 50% of the Branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units cord and plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both are also supplied.
210-21 (B) Recepticles-(2) where connected to a branch circuite supplying two or more receptical Ed or outlets, a receptical shall not supply a total cord and plug connected load in excess of the maximum specified in the following - 210-21(b)(2) Maximum Cord and plug connected load to receptacle chart extract 12 amps on a 15 circuit rating and 16 amps on a 20 amp circuite rating.
210-19 Branch circuit ratings- Conductors- Minimum ampacity and size (a)General-Branch circuits conductors shall have an ampacity not less than the maximum load to be served. Where a branch circuit supplies continuous loads or and combination of continuous and noncontinuous loads, the minimum branch circuit conductor size, before any correction factors, shall have an allowable ampicity equal to or greater than the non continuous load plus 125% of the continuous load.

So what you are looking at is a connected shed with a Freezer a plug in heater washer and gas dryer.
First you must have at least one dedicated 20 amp laundry appliance circuit. Can we plug the dryer and the washer into that GFIR Duplex receptical? Maybe it depends on the connected ampacity ,for that you use the nameplate rating of the appliances. Connected can’t be more than 16 amps of calculation. So you take the highest appliance at 125% and add the other appliance amps and must be below 16 amps. Additionally you can’t tap that circuit and run more receptacles.
My washer is 12 amps and my gas dryer nameplate is 6 amps and this would exceed the circuit ampacity for the laundry appliance circuit. So the Washer the bigger load gets the 20 amp dedicated appliance circuit. I had to run another branch circuit for the dryer but it can have other receptacles on that circuit as long as the combination motor connected load is either 125% of the largest name plate plus the other loads does not exceed 210-21(b)(2) above.
Let’s see I have 20 amp circuit for that with a 6 amp nameplate dryer fixed motor appliance calculated as a a continuous load must rate at 125% so that is 7.5 amps; I have 8 amps left to work with.
I have a 6.5 amp fridge also on that branch circuit so I’m good. 1.5-2 amps left for good head room.
But you also have a small heater with a nameplate of 1600 watts very common size for small heaters.
Calulate the watts over to amps 1600/120volts=13.5 amps
For a 1200 watt heater that’s 10 amps. For a 1000 watt heater that’s 8.5 amps.
That heater is going to need a 20 amp circuit if its 1600 watts. Or a dedicated 15 amp receptical for 1200 watts at the least. My iron is 1500 watts if I plugged it in with the dryer circuit with the dryer off but with the fridge it could trip the circuit. So I use it only when the washer isn’t running.
Just some things to frame up when your electrician comes over to calulate and best divide your loads and circuits. I’d say one 20 amp required laundry appliance circuit, one 20 amp branch circuit for the dryer and freezer; and one more circuit for the heater and possible iron If you don’t run them at the same time.
Edit- I knew this was going to get me in deep ****. Well sorry Indian if I have unintentionally offended anyone. I know every one means well as is coming in to help a brother out. I wanted to keep it as simple as possible and what is safe. I didn’t even get into Article 220-3(c)(1) Nor am I going to quote articles old on newer circuit protection, I’l leave that to the local electrician coming hopefully. It is my duty as a license carrying electrician to protect persons and property. I don’t see why you would want to run conduit to an attached shed but if you did then other rules would also apply which I am highly versed on. Additionaly you can’t take a ground and make it a neutral or the other way or bond the two together to eliminate one or the other. Show me the article that says you can. OKDouble Edit—as I read it now what you are trying to explain is the use of a ‘Multi wire’ circuit which shares the neutral and ground between two hot circuits and it would be easy to pull another hot wire into a conduit to change it to a multi wire branch circuit. Use of muli-wire branch circuits are covered in Article 210-4 Yes that is permissible but the over current protection “breaker” must open both circuits simultaneously so use of a two pole breaker would need to be used . But the having to be a GFI protected circuit in a wet area is going to be a problem on a muli-wire circuit as it wont work using GFI breakers. You will have to use GFIR recepticals. Use of multi-wire circuits is not allowed on the laundry appliance circuit. I wont get into a battle with anyone over application of the NEC rules and methods without knowing more, I’m not there. Let me know what your inspector thinks about what I said.

Nicely written. I also was trying to keep it simple. No, I didn't mean to use the ground as neutral or neutral as ground. By sharing I meant T'd off. Your ground can be split 2 circuits and your neutral can be split 2 circuits. This is done all the time with 3 conductor wire(not counting ground). Kitchen is a good place for this, as 1 circuit/ breaker is usually not enough with all the appliances that get used. Hope this clears any misunderstanding.

 

If you are looking to be code compliant, verify that the outbuilding itself in its current configuration, does not need gfci. Also, counties have their own adoption matrix than can differ.

The real issue is food thawing. A temperature alarm is the only solution. Your power service will get solved, but a blown start capacitor or fried compressor or refrigerant leak or rodent wire chew will still thaw your food.

 

After a deep cleaning and disposal we let the freezer air out for a day then plugged it back in,it's working fine,I'm sure it was just a tired GFI outlet and the surge of the freezer trying to get going again.